1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Stream = Apple ONLY ?

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream' started by SalemCat, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. Nov 12, 2012 #81 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

    451
    0
    Dec 17, 2009

    What is your point? Apple has a different model than Android. They release 1 new device version each year (typically), and they do not allow others to produce devices with the same software. They charge a premium for their devices and may consumers don't mind paying. This extreme control means they can dictate almost every aspect of the experience.

    Android is different. Because there is a wide variety of hardware and vendors producing devices, there are many older software phones still around. However, that is changing. It just takes time for the old to be replaced with the new.

    So there may need to be two different versions of the Tivo app to support in the mean time. How is that any different from the usual experience for software development? Most companies must produce a working product that works with Windows 7 and XP or at least maintain some compatibility between versions.

    Fragmentation isn't stopping any major app developer from providing working apps for gingerbread and newer which represents the majority of Android phones. Sure it may be easier to develop for Apple devices because of their hyper control ecosystem, but since when is doing something because it is easier the better choice?
     
  2. Nov 12, 2012 #82 of 246
    jrtroo

    jrtroo User

    4,059
    4
    Feb 4, 2008
    Easier goes hand in hand with cheaper. Easier and cheaper combined with higher usage levels often means more sales and revenue/profit.

    Which makes ios as the initial development market an easy decision.

    I'm an android user, and realize that my xoom will be second in line. No big deal.
     
  3. Nov 12, 2012 #83 of 246
    lrhorer

    lrhorer New Member

    6,922
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    No doubt, but as you say, there is a difference between "use"and "need". I don't play games of any sort, and I do not surf the web, at least not in any way that would be reasonable with a tablet. I have an e-reader that does a better job for reading, and its battery lasts about two months, not just one day.

    I avoid staring at a computer screen whenever possible, which gets me down to about 12 - 14 hours a day, on average. When I do stare at a computer screen, 9" is nowhere nearly acceptable for virtually anything I do. Even 21" is quite too small to be acceptable. In a minute , I am going in to practice on an RC flight simulator on a 150" screen. It's a little undersized for the application. A full sized keyboard with a separate numeric keypad is absolutely essential, and a mouse or other pointing device with fewer than 6 buttons is useless.

    The bottom line, I suppose, is I do not generally speaking use a PC for recreation. I rely on other devices for that. More importantly, I do not *WANT* my PCs to be portable. It's nothing but an excuse for work to infringe even more heavily on my free time. When I am at a restaurant, or the park, or at the houses of friends or family, work just has to wait. If I had a mobile device with me , they could button-hook me into doing work remotely.
     
  4. Nov 12, 2012 #84 of 246
    lrhorer

    lrhorer New Member

    6,922
    0
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    A little over 5 years ago, there was almost a revolt among my engineering colleagues because the IT department did not want to spend the money for over two hundred 24" monitors. A few of us went so far as to threaten to quit. Some of the rest of us, like me, just bit the bullet and bought our own, bringing them to work. Finally, the VP of engineering had enough of it. He got some backing from the senior team and read the IT folks the riot act, and they finally bought the monitors. Many of us are still using our own monitors, along with the ones they bought us. Most of us have dual 24" or larger monitors, and some of us have three. It's not overkill, and it does greatly enhance our performance and reduce stress.
     
  5. Nov 13, 2012 #85 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

    189
    0
    Jan 5, 2004

    You're just not getting it.

    Making the iOS version first cost them less money, took less time and made the product available to more of their customers sooner. There is no rational reason to code the Android version first.

    Maybe they should have waited 6 more months to release it with support for both platforms, but who does that actually benefit? It doesn't actually result in you getting to use the product sooner.
     
  6. Nov 13, 2012 #86 of 246
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,710
    11
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I have no idea about how much time any of this should take so if someone does I would be interested in their thoughts.

    In any event I find it pretty unthinkable that it should take 6 months to develop an android app to do the same thing that an ios app does once you have developed the ios app. Does the nature of android app development limit the number of individual developers working on the project? or can you simply add more developers to speed up the process? Anyone have some fact based thoughts on this?

    It seems to me the longer TiVo waits to get android support the less likely they are to sell more devices because of it.

    On a someone separate note if they do get an android app up and working is there any reason will will not be able to use it on a Google TV device?
     
  7. Nov 13, 2012 #87 of 246
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,440
    160
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    The two are mutually exclusive. iOS apps are written in a language called Objective C using an iOS specific SDK that is exclusive to Mac OSX. Android apps are written in Java/C++ with an Android specific SDK that's available for all platforms. Very little, if any, code can be shared between them.

    As for putting more developers on the project to speed it up... for a project like this that's probably not practical. It's likely just one guy doing this. The only way to effectively split a project amongst multiple developers is to give them each specific features or section of the application to work on. The TiVo app is relatively simple, so there aren't many sections, plu the main portion of the app is already functional. The only section that needs to be worked on is the Stream support and video playback. They might be able to use two guys, one for the backend communication stuff and another working on the UI portion, but adding more then that probably would hinder the project more then help it.

    As I said above the delay in Android support is more likely a budgetary issue. It's also possible that these apps are developed by 3rd party contractors (TiVo Desktop is) and they have to wait for the contractor to schedule them in. In any case I'm sure they're doing what they can to make it available as quickly as possible. It's not like they are just telling the developer "take your time, we don't need Android support".

    Why? Is there some competing product that all the Android users are going to go with instead? Nope. They're just as likely to sell Streams to Android users right now as they will be 3 months from now. In fact, if anything, there might be slightly more demand after the holidays since a lot of people will get Android devices as gifts.

    You're confusing you're own desire for the product with the actual market.

    Dan
     
  8. Nov 13, 2012 #88 of 246
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,710
    11
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Thanks for your information on how things work.

    I actually have little desire for the stream at this point, I might have purchased it as an impulse buy when it first came out if it supported android but it really doesn't fit into my current video consumption patterns (I don't watch video on my android tablet).

    My thoughts on reduced over all demand the longer android support isn't provided is based the fact that many people believe the next TiVo DVR (Series 5?) will have stream support built in and that it is coming in 2013, which may reduce some demand the longer time goes on without android support. I agree as more people buy/get tablets that are supported by the stream demand should still go up.
     
  9. Nov 13, 2012 #89 of 246
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,440
    160
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    That's some pretty broad speculation. Other then a casual mention during a conference call that a "future" TiVo model would have the Stream capabilities built in, and some speculation on this forum that the Pace XG1 would turn into a retail product, there is no indication that a Series 5 will be released next year. If anyone is seriously holding off buying a Stream because they think that's going to happen then they could be waiting for a long time. Then again I could see people holding off until after CES just to see if TiVo has anything new planned. Although even then a 6 tuner TiVo with Stream capabilities built in is likely to be really expensive, so even if the rumors are true most people would probably still be better off sticking with their current TiVos and buying the Stream as an add-on.

    Dan
     
  10. Nov 14, 2012 #90 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

    451
    0
    Dec 17, 2009
    Tivo should have been developed and released the apps simultaneously not one before the other. Tivo is supposed to be easy for customers and potential customers. Releasing a product that supports only a fraction of the market is confusing and a bad business decision. I understand it was a decision based on limited resources, but it was a myopic one especially considering the latest market share with Android at 72.4% and iOS 13.9%. This is global market share, but the U.S. numbers are likely trending similarly.

    If I owned Stream I'd rarely use it to stream to my 3rd generation iPad. If the Tivo Stream had Android support I'd be more likely to stream from my Galaxy Nexus smart phone than a tablet because I have my phone on me most of the time. If I'm outside enjoying the weather and want to watch a local news highlight, I'd simply pull out my Android phone and stream the first 5 minutes of the local news. I don't see me using it to watch an hour long program, but I would use it to watch a half hour show. Maybe I am the outlier in how I would use it.
     
  11. Nov 14, 2012 #91 of 246
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,440
    160
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    As has been said several times in this thread those numbers don't reflect the market for a Stream. First off Android is used on a LOT of dumb phones which wouldn't even be able to use the TiVo app. Second the Stream's main target is tablet users, not smart phone users, and the iPad still holds a majority share in that market. Lastly studies have shown that iOS users use their devices more frequently and spend more money on apps and accessories. With a niche product like the Stream you have to target the audience that's most likely to actually buy and use it.

    Dan
     
  12. Nov 14, 2012 #92 of 246
    jcaudle

    jcaudle Member

    220
    0
    Aug 16, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    a lot of Android devices and windows computers...Tivo should support Android. However Windows phone is a waste of time for their 2% market share.
     
  13. Nov 14, 2012 #93 of 246
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,440
    160
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Windows 8 will overtake iOS and Android in a few months, if you count all the desktop PCs running it. So if their only criteria is market share then I'd think a Windows 8 version should take precedence over Android. ;)

    Seriously who cares why they choose iOS first? I realize some people are upset that they can't use a Stream yet, but they obviously had some reason. Whether it was a business decision or simply that they like Apple devices more, who cares? They've stated publicly that they are working on Android support. Bitching about it isn't going to make them release it any faster.

    Dan
     
  14. Nov 14, 2012 #94 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

    189
    0
    Jan 5, 2004

    http://readwrite.com/2012/10/25/apple-dominates-q3-us-smartphone-sales-through-big-three-carriers

    Or not. We get all sorts of these reports from analytics companies comparing this data and that data... putting up these big percentage marketshare numbers... but they never really say where any of the data comes from. None of these companies puts out real numbers on sales. So they area all based on estimates and who knows what.

    I'm sure there are a ton of Android devices out there, but a whole lot of them aren't being used as smartphones.
     
  15. Nov 15, 2012 #95 of 246
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

    2,506
    0
    Nov 12, 2004
    Texas
    As an Apple/Mac user.... I love it. It used to be Windows first and screw everyone else. But I do believe that Tivo will update the app to work with android soon.
     
  16. Nov 15, 2012 #96 of 246
    mattack

    mattack Active Member

    20,734
    4
    Apr 9, 2001
    sunnyvale
    You are talking about the *HARDWARE* being replaced. I am saying that Android has fragmentation because MANY phones do not get Android updates, and they still sell NEW phones running "obsolete" versions of Android that will never get updates. (Confession: My major source of news about Android phones is the various CNET podcasts like "First Look".)

    Apple devices get updates for a few YEARS.
     
  17. Nov 15, 2012 #97 of 246
    mattack

    mattack Active Member

    20,734
    4
    Apr 9, 2001
    sunnyvale
    Dumb question time -- I can watch (both streamed and converted) shows on an iPhone, right?

    I think I proved that myself, I already had the TiVo app… TiVo sure makes the iPad most prevalent in the mentions on their web site too. (Back when I had streaming netflix, I watched streaming netflix on my iPhone a few times.. yeah, not routinely, but it was useful to have. It's a shame that the free Amazon Prime Instant Videos don't seem to be available on iOS at all.)

    I will eventually get an iPad, but might get a Stream this weekend, so I can watch my Tivo's content on a treadmill in a different room. (For some content, again, the small screen won't be a big deal… especially for stuff I'm more listening to than watching.)
     
  18. Nov 16, 2012 #98 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

    451
    0
    Dec 17, 2009
    :D You make a good point, Dan. I'm bowing out of this thread now. It has been fun.
     
  19. Nov 16, 2012 #99 of 246
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,440
    160
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Yes. The Stream works with both the iPad and iPhone.

    Dan
     
  20. vectorcatch

    vectorcatch New Member

    129
    0
    Nov 20, 2008
    I know this is a TiVo forum, but just to be clear there is an app for that on the iPad.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/amazon-instant-video/id545519333?mt=8

    However, I do agree about it being a shame it's not available for the iPhone.
     

Share This Page