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Stream = Apple ONLY ?

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream' started by SalemCat, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. Oct 25, 2012 #21 of 246
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I'm not so sure it's going to tip toward Android this time though. Windows 8 is going to attract a LOT of business users to the tablet space. Casual users may still prefer iOS or Android, but when you're boss is going to give you something for free you're going to take what you can get. I think that a year from now Windows 8 is going to carve out a big slice of that pie.

    Dan
     
  2. Oct 25, 2012 #22 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    Overall unit sales may have tipped in favor of Android, but iOS is still firmly the lead mobile platform. The vast majority of Android devices out in the world are not being used as smartphones.

    Browsing statistics and app sale numbers back this up.

    I don't have links handy, but developers make something like 5 times as much selling iPhone apps and the iPhone has something like 2/3 of all mobile browsing usage. That's phones, not tablets.

    Apple also makes 75% of the revenue in the mobile phone hardware business, while google has yet to make a dime off of android. Google themselves testified before congress that iOS is a more profitable platform for them. I think they actually make four times as much off of iOS mobile ads than they do off of their own platform.

    But yeah, the whole world has tilted to android.

    I might have skipped over this comment or been a little less blunt, but I'm tired of people making snide comments about Apple products just being status symbols.

    For some reason it seems like it's impossible for some people to accept the fact that people buy apple products because they like them.
     
  3. Oct 25, 2012 #23 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    People thought the same thing about the iPhone. It was untouchable. Time will tell.
     
  4. Oct 25, 2012 #24 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    I agree that people buy Apple products because they like them, but they also buy them as a status symbol and for every other reason, valid or not. No one is buying an Android phone or Windows phone for status. Those phones don't have hipster appeal. The fact is that Apple makes good, pretty products that cost a lot more than the competition. There's nothing wrong with that. They are doing quite well!

    I don't want to get into a platform debate; however, it is irrelevant what percentage of revenue Apple makes on their mobile phones. It's also irrelevant to the discussion about app sales and browsing data. Apple has a different model than Google or Windows in that they charge a premium for their product and they refuse to compete on price. Google makes their money via advertising. I'm honesty not sure about Windows.

    The iPhone has about 33% of the current market and Android is about 52%. Android will continue to rise and iPhone will keep stealing from Blackberry. It's simply a numbers game. Apple isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but I predict the tablet war will be very similar to the smartphone war: the iPad will have dominance for a number of years while the competition ramps up and eventually outpaces the Apple on sales numbers and eventually specs. Apple will continue to have devotees and will, like their computer sales, be a solid niche market for them.
     
  5. Oct 25, 2012 #25 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    A top-end iPhone costs exactly as much as a top-end Android phone.

    You can get an iPhone for free on contract.

    I don't know why you think Android will continue to rise and that Apple won't also continue to rise.

    Here is what I'm trying to say, only with proper numbers and research...

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/darcytr...s-apple-ios-market-share-numbers-dont-matter/
     
  6. Oct 25, 2012 #26 of 246
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I didn't realize Google had so many apps. According to the article Google had 440K apps and Apple had 550K apps.
     
  7. Oct 26, 2012 #27 of 246
    jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

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    I'll give a different take on the 'status symbol' idea and the corporate environment.

    First corporate. Blackberry is dying a not so slow death. Android with security layer add ons like Touchdown are replacing Blackberries in droves. Both corporate and government. Iphone is nowhere in the corporate world except for 'BYOD' which is dead on arrival in any organization that has data security issues.

    Status symbol, admittedly I work in a very large engineering office so the number of geeks is more concentrated than the general population. But the status symbol is high end Android where Iphone is for sheeple that follow what mother apple doles out to them. The Iphone 5 has driven this home with its day late, underfeatured and over priced 'update'. Sorry but lay an I5 on a confrence room table along side an HTC EVO LTE and the difference in screen, industrial design and capability for corporate use is dramatic. Apple is loosing the corporate phone market as surely as Blackberry has.
     
  8. Oct 26, 2012 #28 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    I don't understand what this has to do with our discussion. No one is debating whether Apple makes more per device (they do) or whether developers make more (they do) because Apple users buy more paid apps (they do) than Android users. Apple's entire business model is based on selling devices with high margin (expensive for consumers and cell carriers) and roping them into the eco-system. Again, we agree on these points.

    Apple is great at innovation, but as a company they must continue to innovate or else lose to the competition in market share and tech specs. See the iPhone for how this is happening. I believe the same is happening with the iPad although we are still in early days. iPad dominance will continue for another 2-3 years and then competitors will begin to take over.

    What this has to do with Tivo is that Tivo should not continue their current strategy of prioritizing Apple devices since the Android ecosystem has surpassed iOS. Hopefully, Tivo leadership has learned this lesson. If in the future, another competitor (Windows or a new OS) begins to gain market share Tivo should not ignore it but should adapt to the changing reality of the cell phone, tablet, or other device market.
     
  9. Oct 26, 2012 #29 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    Google Play app market is about to surpass Apple app store. I think they are about tied at 700k each.
     
  10. Oct 26, 2012 #30 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    It's attitudes like this that put apple users in a defensive stance. Must people use terms like sheeple? Status symbol? Mother apple?

    You are insulting people directly when you do this.

    I think anyone who feels the need to belittle or insult people over their choice of electronics is probably a small minded person with severe emotional problems.
     
  11. Oct 26, 2012 #31 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    The discussion is about who is "winning". Let's take a step back and discuss what the benefit of "winning" is. As a consumer, I don't give two licks about how much money these companies make.

    What I want is the best device with the best features.

    So when we look at what it means to "win" what we are looking at is what is going to result in the most benefit for me, the end user.

    • We want to know that the platform we are buying into is healthy and will continue to get great support.

    • We want to know that a steady stream of high quality apps will be written for our platform.

    • We want to know that our devices will be popular enough to be compatible with after market products and accessories.

    • We want to know that our devices will be popular enough to be compatible with 3rd party software.

    These are the ways having a good marketshare benefits the consumer. And in all of these cases, both platforms are in good shape.

    I would argue that on all of these points, apple is in better shape as a platform than android is. If I am forgetting anything, please let me know.

    How does the larger marketshare of android benefit your average user on the street? Is the larger marketshare providing tangible consumer benefit over what iOS offers?

    You keep saying this, but I don't think it meshes with reality. Apple is selling more and more iPhones every year. Their growth is insane and they are making tons and tons of money in the mobile market. They are the very model of health in the business world. They are in a way way better position than Google or Microsoft. Google has yet to make a dime of actual profit off Android. The entire platform is designed to move advertising, and yet, they make 4 times as much advertising revenue from iOS. The only Android hardware manufacturer making any money is Samsung. HTC, Motorola, Sony... all losing buckets of cash. Posting loss after loss. Microsoft and Nokia are just a huge mess. RIM is basically dead. Any of these companies would trade places with Apple in a heartbeat.

    To put this into some more perspective. Apple's iPhone, which represents about half of their revenue, makes more money than all of Microsoft. Apple's iPhone all by itself also makes more money than all of Google. It also continues to make more and more every single year. There is no indication that it is going to be slowing down.

    Anyway... In the end what consumers want is multiple platforms with healthy ecosystems. Competition benefits everyone. There doesn't need to be a winner and loser, and their probably won't be. Hopefully we will see multiple platforms thrive and compete. That's what benefits the consumer most of all.

    I can see how someone can look at apple 's products and decide that they aren't for them. Android phones are great and offer a lot of features that iPhones don't.

    I just don't see how that frequently turns into apple users being dumb or apple the company being in trouble.

    I think when people talk about apple being in trouble, or apple losing, they are just projecting their hatred for the company into their feelings. For whatever reason, apple doing well drives non-apple users insane. They just can't handle it and they start crafting all sorts of bizarre fantasy scenarios to make it feel like apple is doing worse than they are, or their platform of choice is going to win.

    No one needs to win. If anyone does win, we all lose.

    Again, Android has raw numbers, but a huge amount of those phones are in the hands of people who don't use them as smartphones. iOS users download more apps and use them more. Despite being in the minority marketshare wise. The numbers here aren't even close. Apple is an easier platform to target, because there are much less devices to optimize for. iOS users download more apps and pay for more apps. In the tablet market, the real target of the Stream, the iPad is clearly ahead by a huge margin by any measurable metric.

    If TiVo had to make a choice between getting it out now on one platform, or trying to make it for every platform, iOS is the safe and logical choice.

    Even if they made the Android app first, they wouldn't be able to target every android device, making android larger marketshare a moot point anyway.
     
  12. Oct 26, 2012 #32 of 246
    magnox

    magnox New Member

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    You have WAY too much time on your hands.
     
  13. Oct 26, 2012 #33 of 246
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

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    :up: +1
     
  14. Oct 26, 2012 #34 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    Guilty as charged. This morning anyway.

    I see comments all over the web like this and I never bother responding... so in the rare instance when I do respond, I do it thoroughly.

    This is more of a response to the last 100 people who have said something similar, only poor mr smits gets the brunt of it, because he caught me on a quiet morning at work (where I can spare 15 minutes to write a long response) and on a commenting system where I am actually registered and logged in.
     
  15. Oct 26, 2012 #35 of 246
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

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    Ya but this thread really has very little to do with ios devices and the people who use them per say and allot to do with people who want to use the stream with non-ios devices.

    It is really simple when people want something, some people are willing to do or say anything to get it. Just look at the crap people say to get people to vote one way or the other truth/reality has nothing to do with it.

    In this case people with non-ios devices want the stream to work with their device. So any position that justifies TiVo doing that is a good position. So no real reason to take it personally.
     
  16. Oct 26, 2012 #36 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    Well, mr_smits was saying that it made more sense for TiVo to make the android version first, and I'm trying to explain why I think that's not the case.

    TiVo should (and will) make it work for everyone. But it makes more sense for them to get it out on one platform, and then bring access for more people later, than it is for them to sit on it until it works across both platforms. It also makes more sense for them to make the lead platform iOS.
     
  17. Oct 26, 2012 #37 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    Instead of responding to your entire other post, I'll just focus on this one issue:

    I disagree that Tivo choosing iOS was the safe and logical choice for Stream compatibility. It would have been the safe and logical choice in 2009, but itÂ’s almost 2013 and the reality is that the market is changing rapidly. According to this Engadget article, http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/25/strategy-analytics-claims-android-reached-41-percent-of-tablets/ iPad is about 57% percent of the tablet market with Android tablets at 41%!

    I don't think Tivo should have made the Android app first; in fact, that would have been just as bad as iOS first decision. Tivo is supposed to be known as making TV simple and just working for the majority of potential customers. The iOS and Android apps should be developed simultaneously and released at the same time. If Tivo wants to thrive, it should stay on top of market share trends and not default to one. It's a poor business to do otherwise.

    It would be great to hear from an official Tivo spokesperson that an Android version or compatibility was started at the same time and with the same resources (money, vigor) as the iOS version was, because I don't believe that it is true. It may be easier to create for iOS and that is why that decision was made, but when has taking the easy route been the best route? I'd argue very rarely.
     
  18. Oct 26, 2012 #38 of 246
    jrtroo

    jrtroo User

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    It may be just time to agree to disagree on iOS vs android support. We KNOW android support is coming.

    I don't know if Windows 8 support is. Tivo has said nothing about that happening.
     
  19. Oct 26, 2012 #39 of 246
    ort

    ort Member

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    Those tablet numbers don't really correlate to real world use. That's tablet shipment in one quarter. Apple lists tablet sales numbers while none of the competition does. Apple has sold 100 million iPads. To put that into perspective, the PS2, the most popular gaming console in history, sold 150 million units in 10 years. The iPad has sold 100 million units in 2.5 years.

    Anytime there are studies about browser usage amongst tablets, the iPad is in the low 90%s.

    I think you're just sticking your head in the sand. No one makes the android version of their apps first. Everyone makes the iOS version first and then ports it to android. There is a reason they do this.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/jun/10/apple-developer-wwdc-schmidt-android
     
  20. Oct 26, 2012 #40 of 246
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    Look at the link again. Market share is below the shipments in Q3 2011 and Q3 2012. The one that says Global Market Share. Is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that the iPad and iPhone isn't "winning" that you simply cannot see data that contradicts your opinion? ;)

    Tivo should respond to the facts: market share and market share trends. Hopefully the leadership that made the Stream decision to go iOS first instead of at least having Android and iOS support at launch has been fired or demoted to a position some easier decision making.
     

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