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Strange 1x fast forward issue since 9.4 update

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by vittoria, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. aine

    aine New Member

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    Dec 23, 2003
    No, I am not sure. The reason I thought it was analog was because when I first got the TiVo, the picture was snowy, and I had ghosting on local channels, like you see with analog. Time Warner guy told me that only channels 100+ are digital, but he of course could have been wrong.

    Here's what I see on the DVR Diagnostics screen; can you interpret?

    Tuner: 0
    Channel: 7
    Frequency: 561000 KHz
    Modulation: QAM 256
    Connector Type: RF 2
    Signal Source: Cable
    CAbleCARD Association: CableCARD 1
    Signal Strength: 68-75 (varies)
    Signal Lock: Yes
    Program Lock: Yes
    Search Complete: Yes
    SNR: 33 dB
    ...
     
  2. schwinn

    schwinn New Member

    291
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    Sep 18, 2004
    QAM 256 = digital... you're watching a digital SD feed of the station (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAM_%28television) )

    So, the explanation stands - the digital stream probably doesn't have the indexing (or whatever it is) that allows Tivo to 1x FF or RW...

    In other words, it's not Tivo's fault, since it's not re-encoding the video stream... the provider isn't sending that data. If anything, you can complain to the provider (likely the network) but I doubt you'll get very far.
     
  3. aine

    aine New Member

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    Dec 23, 2003
    Thanks for the info... I'm willing to complain to someone. Two questions: is it NBC as in the network, or my local affiliate, any idea?

    Second, what exactly would I tell them? Technically, what is missing from the stream? I just want something "smart" to include in my email or letter, something accurate that they can act on. Thanks.
     
  4. TerpBE

    TerpBE Go Terps!

    682
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    Jan 23, 2003
    Philly 'burbs
    It seems like this has been happening very frequently with NBC sports...I'm seeing it with the Olympics too. I'm almost positive it's an issue with NBC, but have no confidence that anybody is knowledgeable or competent enough to do anything about it.
     
  5. russelpo

    russelpo New Member

    1
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    Oct 27, 2008
    This is a fantastic thread. Thanks to everyone who has a clue, giving meaningful info to those of us that are longing for some direction.

    The lack of 1x FF has been driving me insane. I have a similar story to many on this thread. My DT worked brilliantly w/ analog. to keep two tuners, which is a huge bonus, I had to upgrade to the HD when Comcast went digital.

    I spoke to 5 different Tivo support people on the lack of 1x FF topic. None had a clue. Massive frustration and waste of my time.

    they sent me a refurbed HD box. It wouldn't even boot up. They sent me another new HD box...same no-1x-ff prob. I decided to do some research - and found this thread. Obviously should have done so first. Almost told Tivo to go shove their box, and I'd go w/ DVR. Sounds like that woulnd't have helped.

    Watching sports has been painful ever since the "upgrade" (to digitial and my HD box)... 1x FF was awesome to get through commercials, free throws, time outs, huddles, injuries, etc., etc.

    I used to applaud Tivo's support. I no longer can. I used to be ecstatic w/ the Tivo experience. I no longer am.

    From this thread, I understand it is a compression problem. But, I also think Tivo can come up with some "workaround" that would be between zero and 2x FF. I hope they put some effort into it. I have a Tivo almost entirely for sports. The experience has been more than marginalized. I do not feel like I'm getting my money's worth from the new box nor my subscription. I regret the upgrade.

    Sad - i used to be a huge fan.
     
  6. schwinn

    schwinn New Member

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    0
    Sep 18, 2004
    Not sure, but since everyone sees this, I imagine it's NBC's main feed that is missing this data, and the affiliates are simply relaying the stream as-is. All I can say is, good luck getting them to do something about it... I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Makes me wonder, though, do cable company DVRs have the 1x speed, and does it work on their equipment? Anyone know?
    I have asked this question here before (on this thread?): What, exactly, is missing from the stream? No one has answered that for me... I imagine it's some sort of indexing frames or something, but I certainly don't know.

    I guess if someone is interested, they can pull the video down to the PC and compare one that works with one that doesn't... assuming the PC-transfer isn't blocked, of course!
     
  7. Phantom Gremlin

    Phantom Gremlin New Member

    1,555
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    Jun 20, 2002
    Tualatin,...
    I have problems with 1x FF on various channels (but not all). So I don't use it very much. But that's not quite as bad as it sounds. There are really two main alternatives:

    1) 2x FF works well, once you get used to how it automatically rewinds just a little at the end. Train your fingers.

    2) enable the 30-second skip forward button. This works quite well for the "typical" football game. However, when Payton Manning goes into "hurry-up offense", you will need to follow a skip forward with the 8-second rewind button. Unfortunately this scheme doesn't work nearly as well with shorter duration events like free throws.

    The alternatives to 1x FF aren't great, but they're not horrible either.

    I've lately started playing around with various software players for my Mac: VLC, Plex, XBMC, MPlayer OSX Extended, etc. You want "painful"? Go try to move around your files with any of those! Much worse than how TiVo lets you do it.
     
  8. markens

    markens Member

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    0
    Apr 12, 2007
    See the referenced links in post #100 of this thread. They explain the stream issue very well:
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7636402#post7636402
     
  9. schwinn

    schwinn New Member

    291
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    Sep 18, 2004
    markens - thanks for the link... I must have missed it.

    The first post implies it might be an I/P frame issue... but doesn't say if that's what it is, exactly. I had agreed (post 107) that it was a frame issue like this, but don't have any confirmation that it was I or P (or B) frames, specifically. I'm just curious... has that been determined?

    Still, that implies Tivo could improve the 1x operations in such cases, if they were so inclined. If it doesn't come with the next update (I predict one will come with the new March 2nd announcement)... then it won't be happening anytime soon.
     
  10. Mar 3, 2010 #130 of 150
    Puppy76

    Puppy76 Active Member

    1,182
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    Oct 6, 2004
    It is absolutely *NOT* NBC. NBC's one of the main networks I watch, and I haven't once seen anything like this in the past year I've had my HD XL. Nothing like it in the probably at least 40 hours of Olympics I taped either.

    I have ATSC...so that's probably why. It could be a local affiliate, but it's probably much more likely that your cable company is compressing stuff further, and messing things up.
     
  11. Mar 8, 2010 #131 of 150
    aine

    aine New Member

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    Dec 23, 2003
    Over the weekend during the UCLA-ASU basketball game on CBS (SD, not HD), I saw something interesting related to this thread.

    I clicked the 1x FF button, and every few seconds, it would toggle between normal "live" speed and the expected 1x FF (triple-speed, is it?) speed. That is, click FF, for a few seconds players moving normally, then speed up for a few seconds, then back to moving normally, then speed up again, and so on.

    Another problem with this is that after I 1x FF to the spot I want, the TiVo does not begin to play at that spot. It seemed like it was jumping back like it does in 2x and 3x FF. One of the things that (used to) distinguish TiVo by generic DVRs is the super-smooth 1x FF, and responsive "play" after 1x FF. No longer I guess.

    Has anyone else seen the behavior where 1x FF randomly speeds up and slows down every few seconds while 1x FF is active?
     
  12. Mar 9, 2010 #132 of 150
    jtkohl

    jtkohl New Member

    170
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    Feb 6, 2004
    Arlington,...
    Yes, I saw this a few years ago with Versus SD and downhill skiing, on Comcast. Don't have Comcast anymore, so I don't know if it still happens there.
     
  13. Mar 9, 2010 #133 of 150
    vittoria

    vittoria Member

    58
    5
    Apr 15, 2008
    NJ
    Every channel where the 1xFF doesn't work exhibits the same thing you've desribed. It will shift between normal speed to a somewhat faster but jittery speed. NBC is always bad for me. YES network, too, but only during games. (During other programming 1xff on YES is fine.) SpeedTV used to be bad but now works fine. I'd say 1xff is useless on about 50% of channels I receive.

    I have not noticed the other issue of not resuming play at the desired place.
    ----------------------------
    S3 -- Cablevision -- cablecards -- no expander -- no tuning adapter.
     
  14. Mar 9, 2010 #134 of 150
    TerpBE

    TerpBE Go Terps!

    682
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    Jan 23, 2003
    Philly 'burbs
    Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it is "absolutely *NOT* NBC". These other posts seem to point to a trend:


     
  15. Mar 9, 2010 #135 of 150
    Puppy76

    Puppy76 Active Member

    1,182
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    Oct 6, 2004
    Not really. Only 4 of those are confirmed ATSC, and if it were NBC, I'd be seeing it too. Since I don't, it can't be NBC.
     
  16. Mar 9, 2010 #136 of 150
    TerpBE

    TerpBE Go Terps!

    682
    0
    Jan 23, 2003
    Philly 'burbs
    Most people aren't saying that it happens all the time with all NBC programming.

    I went outside today and it was bright and sunny. That doesn't mean I'll assume that rain never falls from the sky.
     
  17. Puppy76

    Puppy76 Active Member

    1,182
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    Oct 6, 2004
    Yes, but it doesn't EVER happen for me in over a year of use, including things that are triggering the behavior for others.
     
  18. wtherrell

    wtherrell Member

    467
    1
    Dec 23, 2004
    Huntersville...
    Was thinking of getting a Premiere XL but not until I see that Tivo has fixed or worked around this problem. Anyone know if the Premiere has this fixed. (Yes, I know that it's lack of info in the compressed stream from provider, but the Tivo output is reading off a hard disk and they should have a workaround by now)
     
  19. rickcatron@sbcgl

    rickcatron@sbcgl New Member

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    Jan 20, 2009
    Premiere Elite doesn't fix the problem.
     
  20. rocketscientist

    rocketscientist New Member

    3
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    Oct 11, 2011
    Anyone know if TIVO now acknowledges this problem, or do they still claim ignorance about it? I just recently "upgraded" from a series 2 to TIVO HD and the lack of a functional 2x FF is really annoying.
     

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