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Star Trek:TNG "Q Who" (S2E16)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by doom1701, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title

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    Grand...
    It's interesting to go back and watch this one again. So much has been done with the Borg, and seeing their introduction is a little humbling. But before getting to that...

    Is it ever discussed what the deal is between Q and Guinan? And why does Guinan look like she's going to go all supernatural on Q at one point? It was an interesting way to use the Guinan character, and Whoopi did a pretty good job...but there did seem to be some unanswered questions.

    But back to the Borg. Their introduction almost felt weak--but probably because they were turned into such a big bad in the future. Granted, they were unstoppable even in this episode, but future incarnations of the Borg, especially in First Contact and Voyager, were much more monster like. One thing that did pack a punch that was essentially reconned out in the future were the Borg babies.
     
  2. Bryanmc

    Bryanmc I'm normal.

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    I've gotten a little ahead in the series (which is why I've not really kept up with the discussions) but one thing about the Borg that I've noticed is that the idea of assimilating other races seems to have been something not thought out from the beginning. There are tons of mentions about how the Borg aren't interested in humans, only their technology.

    And in Best of Both Worlds the idea of assimilating humans into the collective seems to be something new the Borg are doing, or at least out of the ordinary. We see the Borg now as a race that assimilates everything in their wake, but it's pretty clear this was not the case in their early appearances.

    As for Guinan, no it's never explained in the TV show or movies what her relationship with Q is. On that point, she also quite often refers to the fact that Picard saved her from a really bad situation at one point in her past. We eventually learn what that was, but compared to how she describes it the actual events seem pretty darned weak. It's as if they wanted to allude to some huge deal for years, then at one point decided to cram that history into a couple of episodes and it was pretty poorly done.

    So I'm not really upset they didn't flush out the history between her and Q, it probably wouldn't have lived up to expectations anyway.
     
  3. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    I found it interesting to see how much of Guinan they changed over the years. Hinting that she had some sort of supernatural ability to be an adversary of Q was a little odd... it was something that to my knowledge was never followed up on after this episode, and sort of came out of the blue here. I'd be curious to learn what the thought process was behind including that in this episode. Her backstory, and that of her species, never became clear. In fact, it became more and more convoluted as the series went along. The fact that she says she wasn't there when the Borg invaded doesn't see to mesh with the fact that she was on a pair of ships carrying a large number of refugees from her species in the 23rd century.

    There were other things that were glaringly dropped after this episode, most obviously the idea of the Borg procreating. Now, it's possible they chose to assimilate infants from some species, but that doesn't seem practical. We never saw Borg infants again after this episode. Also, in that same scene, you could see a plate on the wall with what appears to be a Borg insignia or seal, also an idea that is never repeated after this episode (fortunately - the idea of the Borg needing or wanting a logo seems unlikely.)

    I don't get why they included the character of Sonja Gomez in this episode. She was annoying as all hell and served no functional storytelling purpose. She was also so unrealistically written... I can't see anyone, even a nervous ensign, thinking it would be a good idea to try to dry the Captain's uniform off by feeling it up. After that scene, I was already eager for the Borg to assimilate her. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
     
  4. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title

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    Grand...
    I just watched this a few days ago, and I had already pushed the entire Sonja Gomez thing out of my mind.
     
  5. DougF

    DougF Active Member

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    I haven't watched yet, but I do remember Gomez seeming way out of her element and out of place. I have no idea, but I'd guess there were efforts at some point to expand the cast a bit. I've heard many times that they offered Ashley Judd a permanent role and she turned it down. Was the Gomez character an earlier attempt to add another lady and it just didn't work?
     
  6. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title

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    Grand...
    The character almost felt like an adult Wesley. Nervous, curious, unsure of herself. I remember Wesley being in the episode, though--it's not like Wheaton wasn't available so they threw someone from central casting into a role and changed the name on the script.
     
  7. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title

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    Grand...
    Oh, forgot to mention that this episode has one of my favorite FX from the series--the Borg slicing a chunk of the saucer section out and pulling it away. Something like that would be simple using CGI, but they had to do it with a model, so I'm curious how it was done.
     
  8. Bryanmc

    Bryanmc I'm normal.

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    Yes, I remember that looking very cool when I first saw it.
     
  9. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    According to Memory Alpha, a Star Trek wiki, Gomez was supposed to be a recurring character to add comic relief.

    What a dumb idea on a show like TNG.
     
  10. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    Did you forget about the Children of the Borg?


    She's too cute to be assimilated.
    I liked the idea of a female engineer recurring character and the actress but the execution was flawed in this episode.
    She came off better in Samaritan Snare though.
     
  11. Fish Man

    Fish Man Phish Food

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    Agreed.

    Awesome, given the FX technology of the day and TNG's budget. I remember being impressed when I saw it in first run, and I still am.
     
  12. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    Yeah, I did. That said, Voyager really mucked up the continuity when it came to the Borg. On that show, they established that Starfleet knew about the Borg before this episode (and for that matter, well before the era of TNG), and even sent out a ship (the Raven) to investigate them.
     
  13. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    But I was repeatedly told on this very forum that those things are unimportant as the later shows are the superior ones!
     
  14. Fish Man

    Fish Man Phish Food

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    0.7 miles...
    You certainly didn't hear that from me!

    IMHO, in terms of writing and acting, everything that followed ST:TNG was downhill (DS9, VOY, and ENT).

    I found "Enterprise" particularly maddening. For every awesome bit of Star Trek Canon continuity, they'd have something that was just atrocious.

    The awesome:

    • The development of the early relationship with Andorians and Tellerites, and various events that shaped the federation, epsecially the episodes featuring Shran.
    • The depiction of "T'Pau" (described by Kirk in her old age as "all of Vulcan, in one package") as a young woman, and leading a movement to end Vulcan's philosophy of douchbaggery and restore Sarek's philosophies that we had been exposed to in the other series.
    • Strong hints that the freighter that Mayweather grew up on was the one that left "Chicago Mobs of the 20's" on Iotia. (Reference to TOS: "A Piece of the Action").

    The atrocious:

    • Archer knew about the Borg.
    • Archer knew about the Ferengi.
    • Archer continuously dealt with Romulans but it wasn't until Kirk's enterprise 100 years later that Humans or Vulcans actually found out what Romulans looked like and figured out that they were essentially renegade Vulcans.
    • The asinine explanation for Klingons without head ridges. Worf's "We don't talk about that" line from DS9 should have been the last word on that.
    • The Vuclan "******baggery" was a problem for me at first, until they nicely explained it (see "the awesome" above).

    (Sorry for the minor thread hijack.)
     
  15. doom1701

    doom1701 Time for a new Title

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    Grand...
    I actually watched a little bit of Enterprise last night (Netflix has been sticking it in my face for months, I finally gave in). There were a ton of issues with it, like Fish pointed out...but the main thing that I've noticed now that we're starting to get into some good TNG is the quality of the acting.

    Patrick Stewart is a given...he's incredible. Once they let the show take a consistent dramatic tone in later seasons, he just blows away anything on screen. But the rest of the cast was quite good as well. Brent Spiner is awesome. Frakes really came into the role of Riker and gave it some serious gravitas. Even Levar Butron and Michael Dorn got really good.

    While I'm not a fan of DS9, I think it carried on this tradition in the major characters (Avery Brooks is good--although really quirky, Rene Obujajobingbong is a solid actor, even Nana Visitor was pretty good), but it kicked the legs out from under the solid acting that TNG started by throwing in those aweful Ferengi characters.

    Voyager took a nose dive, and then, watching Enterprise last night, it was like watching a high school play. There were plenty of story problems in Enterprise, no doubt...but there were a TON of issues just in front of the camera.
     
  16. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    I would've been with you on VOY and ENT, but IMO DS9 was a far superior series from TNG... it started off about as strong as TNG, and just skyrocketed from there.

    You mention the "awful Ferengi characters" but I think DS9 actually took what were a laughably weak and one-dimensional race and turned them into something. I'm not saying there weren't bad Ferengi episodes ("Profit and Lace" specifically) but thanks to outstanding work from actors like Armin Shimmerman and Aron Eisenberg, they became *real*.
     
  17. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    I never could stick with DS9 because it seemed to be endless "those awful Nazis Cardassians." I should give it another look. Why is DS9 not available in syndication (or is it?)

    The ex-GF acted with Armin Shimmerman. It's funny to see him and only recognize Quark's voice.
     
  18. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    It isn't, and I'm not sure why. There was also something odd about the show, possibly involving the syndication rights, that prevented it from being made available on Netflix at the same time as the rest of the Trek series as well. (It is available now... I've already raced through and I'm up to season 3.
     
  19. Win Joy Jr

    Win Joy Jr Active Member

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    Add in another voice for DS9! The major story arcs, character development, and watching tables turned on entire races was quite enjoyable. To me, it built on TNG and exceeded it.
     
  20. allan

    allan Just someone TCF Club

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    My problem with DS9 is, they started playing games with the schedule, moving show times, and this was pre-tivo. I missed quite a few eps because of that. I thought the early eps were meh, the later ones were great, but I'm not sure when it changed.
     

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