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Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Jun 8, 2016 #1721 of 1839
    scotchburg

    scotchburg New Member

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    Thanks! that is helpful and actually makes sense in my dumb head! :)
     
  2. Jun 8, 2016 #1722 of 1839
    scotchburg

    scotchburg New Member

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    Forgot to ask - I will always keep the Roamio connected with both the ethernet and coax connections regardless of which combination of connection types are used on the minis, right?
     
  3. Jun 8, 2016 #1723 of 1839
    fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the Roamio is used to "create a MoCA network" and you have at least one mini using MoCA, then yes.
     
  4. Jun 8, 2016 #1724 of 1839
    krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    TiVo's Custom Installers "Tips & Tricks" doc recommends limiting MoCA-connected Minis to 5...
    For best results when using MoCA, limit the number of TiVo devices on the network to five. If more TiVo devices are needed, please use an Ethernet connection instead.
    ... but I suspect they're being overly cautious. Having the Minis connected via MoCA is different than each of them streaming some high bandwidth HD content simultaneously.


    Another benefit of connecting the Minis by MoCA is that their connectivity to their host DVR won't be lost in the event of a router reboot; however, on the other hand, Mini host and Internet connectivity *will* be lost any time the MoCA-bridging TiVo Roamio is rebooted. (This is why I still prefer using a dedicated MoCA adapter rather than a TiVO DVR as my MoCA bridge, and also use a separate network switch as my central wired Ethernet "hub," rather than the built-in switch ports of my router.)

    It's also nice to have the flexibility to choose/switch between Ethernet and MoCA connectivity for a given Mini, should some future TiVo software update create flakiness with one technology or the other. You know, on the off chance of that happening.
     
  5. Jun 8, 2016 #1725 of 1839
    krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    You're correct re: FiOS and the non-need for a MoCA PoE filter; however, I'm guessing, based on the planned setup, that FiOS won't be available at their new location and so they'll be going with some other cable Internet/TV provider, and so the MoCA PoE filter will be needed -- and is correctly located in their planned setup*.

    * ... with the caveat that they meant "modem" where they'd typed "router" when describing what would be connected to the PoE 2-way coax splitter.


    edit: p.s. Ha!, yeah, methinks scotchburg *is* going with a cable provider, given the subject to his post: "New Comcast Service." Not sure, though; I'll have to do some research regarding this "Comcast" company. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
  6. Jun 8, 2016 #1726 of 1839
    krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    The "outlet pass-through" just means that model includes a power outlet into which you could plug-in and power another device. Compare the pics for the models and you'll quickly see the difference. (The selection buttons for the Amazon product listing provide a good view toggle.)


    Going with a Powerline solution rather than MoCA is not something I'd recommend if you *can* do MoCA but are just having difficulty getting it setup. You'll be well-rewarded in working through whatever hiccups are hampering your MoCA setup.

    That said, Powerline *can* be an alternative, albeit officially not supported by TiVo, if you can't do wired Ethernet or MoCA, as is Wireless per some TCF members.
     
  7. Jun 8, 2016 #1727 of 1839
    scotchburg

    scotchburg New Member

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    Thank you, thank you :) You are correct and we are def speaking about having to jump aboard the comcast wagon. unfortunately I have to transition to them at the new house, but with Tivo boxes in the mix instead of their boxes I think most things are neutralized. There's the benefit of the free cable card at least; i currently pay verizon for the first/only one i have...but then i have to buy a modem and router(s) instead of being able to use the actiontek one I own...actually, i think i'll be able to use that actiontek as a WAP somewhere at one end of the house...right?
     
  8. Jun 8, 2016 #1728 of 1839
    krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Likely, but I expect that's the least of your worries. (May not even be needed, depending on your choice of router and the size of your new house.)
     
  9. Jun 8, 2016 #1729 of 1839
    krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest posting your MoCA roadblocks, here, and let the community see if it can help you sort it out. I was able to find your original post asking about MoCA, here, but it was light on specifics, especially where it comes to understanding how your rooms are connected to each other via coax and to the incoming Comcast coax line.

    Your setup sounds pretty straightforward, so it's difficult to see where the troubles might lie, apart from disconnected cables, incompatible splitters, live Xfinity equipment on the same coax lines, or misconfigured TiVos.

    Throw some details our way and maybe it can be figured out. The best start is often a diagram and/or description of your coax network, including everything currently connected and *how* they connect to each other. (And/or the specific errors/symptoms you're experiencing.)
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Interesting info, JoeyD51; thanks for posting.

    One thing to keep in mind, should you find your TiVo network/MoCA connectivity getting flaky over time, is that other users have reported Comcast automatically shutting down MoCA on their gateways. I hope your setup remains stable, but see here for more info:

    And per the final post in the thread, there's a Comcast-administered "whitelist" workaround ...
     
  11. BeachBill

    BeachBill New Member

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    The antenna worked well. Picked up 34 channels. Unfortunately, "she who must be obeyed" is not comfortable giving up cable TV. However, I do have permission to look at replacing 3 DVRs that we rent with a TiVo Bolt. Thanks so very much for all the help and advice. I'll be going to Bold thread and looking at how to set it up.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    You may still want to keep that antenna plan handy, as having an OTA-sourced TiVo as a supplement to a CableCard'd TiVo can be useful.
     
  13. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't have to be all or nothing. OTA plus PS Vue to supplement gives you a 90% cable replacement for a fraction of the cost. Did that for my parents, and it's working great for them. I plan to do the same for myself in a year or so.

    In any case, you can definitely get rid of all your cable boxes and cable DVRs.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Could a diplexer be used as a sort of MoCA-passthrough between the cable TV and OTA antenna coax segments? MoCA would be present across all the coax, but the diplexer would keep the cable and antenna signals separate.

    The problem is whether the diplexer's SAT port would truly filter-out the cable TV and antenna signals. For example, the specs for the Holland DPD2 diplexer indicate a passthrough frequency range of 950-2150 MHz, so some cable TV signals might leak through to the antenna. Right?

    [​IMG]

    NOTES:
    • Ideally, the amplifier would be a designed-for-MoCA amp, with a built-in MoCA filter.
    • ANT (VHF/UHF) port on diplexer should be terminated.
    • You could even place a CableCARD-capable TiVo in the cable modem room to tune & record cable TV content, should a hybrid setup be desired.

    .
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
  15. snerd

    snerd Member

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    The connection you show is likely to work just fine. If the cable company is using frequencies above 950MHz, then some small fraction of those signals would reach the antenna. In an ideal system, those signals would be entirely absorbed by the cable modem, but in reality there are always reflections and port coupling in the splitters that allow some of the signal to get through.
     
  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Post-posting I was thinking that the amp would snuff the stray cable signals trying to find their way up the return path, depending on the amp's specs. Yes?
     
  17. snerd

    snerd Member

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    Jun 6, 2008
    Yes, good point.

    Using a different diplexer, perhaps this STVC would allow the 2x splitter to be eliminated by connecting the cable+PoE directly to the ANT/VHF/UHF port. The key difference in this diplexer is that it passes frequencies down to 5MHz, allowing the DOCSIS upstream signals to pass through the diplexer.

    While I generally like the DPD2 diplexer, the specs for it are ambiguous. Some Holland docs show a VHF/UHF band of 40-806MHz, while others state 5-806MHz. I think I'll test one to find which spec matches reality...
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, having a diplexer in place of that splitter would be ideal (i.e. only the 1 diplexer), but the roadblock remains the splice frequencies between the bands. Too wide a range is slipping through the SAT port (beneath the MoCA ranges, from 950+ MHz) and too little through the ANT port (which cuts off at 806 MHz) when it comes to digital cable TV & Internet signals. The concern is that critical cable TV or DOCSIS channels might be lost with the top end of the cable TV/Internet frequency range, 806-1002 MHz, being filtered-out by the diplexer.

    And now I'm concerned about the upstream path, 5-42 MHz -- were I to try using a diplexer to pass cable TV signals. Though this Holland specs doc states an identical frequency spec for the 2 different diplexer models, another Holland doc underscores your "ambiguous" comment, citing a 40+ MHz range.

    What we need is a new diplexer, designed for cable TV & MoCA -- which could also be used for OTA & MoCA -- passing 5-1002 MHz through one port and 1125-1675 MHz through the other. Something like what's pictured on this web page (though, ideally, updated for MoCA 2.0):
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  19. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    The main reasons satellite is using diplexers is because satellite IF signals also have information in the lower cable frequency bands for SWiM, control signals, etc. so they naturally want to filter out any cable and OTA antenna channel freqs from the coax so it doesn't screw up their system. It also uses DC power over its coax and that's usually a no-no for cable.

    This is not the case when using cable or OTA tv with moca. Moca was designed to have other freqs below it (or above it in the case of the DECA version for satellite) and only transmits and uses freqs above 1150MHz, it doesn't care what's below that like satellite does.

    This does hinge on making sure the right coax is used and all the connectors, splitters and amps are terminated correctly to avoid VSWR, reflections, noise, harmonics, etc. that could cause each band to interfere with each other.

    I do see the case of using one to keep moca off of your antenna though.

    Separate frequencies do remain separate on the coax because.......well....they're separate! This phenomenon is bore out in many other ways on each and every day.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    I can only speak for my experience, but I first learned of diplexers because they were used in our satellite installation the same way they're being used with OTA/MoCA installations... to merge and/or splice OTA/CATV & satellite signals (MoCA, in the case of TiVos) on a coax run. CATV (later, OTA) was fed to multiplexers in our basement, to distribute CATV signals along with satellite to each of our TV locations, but our satellite boxes only handled tuning and recording of satellite... so we needed diplexers to splice the CATV/OTA signal off onto its own coax line (then fed directly into ReplayTVs).

    If satellite installers were merely looking to block non-satellite signals, I'd think they'd just use a filter, yeah?

    Regardless, me want MoCA diplexers.

    edit: p.s. Admittedly, our satellite setup was pre-SWM... and we never went SWM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016

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