1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Aug 2, 2014 #381 of 1812
    DJQuad

    DJQuad Poker Junkie

    340
    0
    Dec 22, 2004
    Fort Wayne, IN
    I looked into the Roku a bit more and it does need an HDMI cable, which it doesn't come with. I get the HDMI connections now.

    Here's my 4th revision which includes a couple more Rokus, HDMI connections, and another switch. Hopefully it's all correct because I just ordered $700 worth of goodies :) If anyone wants to know what all I had to buy let me know.

    I opted to go with Rokus instead of TiVo Minis, Amazon Fire TVs, Apple TVs, and Chromecasts, but the connections would basically be the same as far as a MoCA Network itself.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Aug 2, 2014 #382 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

    2,781
    8
    Mar 21, 2004
    Graph looks good. :) Rokus are nice. Always a good option.
     
  3. Sep 13, 2014 #383 of 1812
    SBacklin

    SBacklin New Member

    14
    0
    Jul 28, 2014
    The pro tip was very handy but I recently discovered something. Even tho my Pro was the coordinator node, when I connected a device to my Plus's ethernet port to daisy chain, the other tivo units started seeing my plus as the coordinator node when it wasn't. I had connections but my LAN speeds were very slow. Once I disconnected the device and made sure my Pro was back as the coordinator node, all was back to normal. The device I was using to feed off my Plus's ethernet port was a AirPort Extreme that was extending a wireless network via ethernet. I also read somewhere that doing the pro tip idea would cause the unit to try and create the moca network which in my case it did. What are your thoughts on this particular situation?
     
  4. Sep 13, 2014 #384 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

    2,781
    8
    Mar 21, 2004
    I don't have experience with the AE but (just to cover the simple basics) I would first make sure it's setup as a bridge. And the Tivo should connect to its WAN and be set to moca+ethernet. Not trying to be insulting if those are obvious, I just don't have AE-on-Tivo experience to go into any particular detail about its compatibility. Hopefully someone else can chime in.
     
  5. Sep 13, 2014 #385 of 1812
    SBacklin

    SBacklin New Member

    14
    0
    Jul 28, 2014
    The AE is in bridge mode. I just hooked it back up to my Plus, all is connected and the Pro is still showing at the coordinating node. That is how it should be. However, I'm still seeing that slow down on my LAN. I'm at a loss as to why its doing that. I did also notice that with the AE hooked up the network status now shows as Ethernet + MoCA instead of just MoCA. I'm wondering if I should try and get a separate MoCA bridge and put it in and see if my LAN slows down. Its hard to find good adapters. The ECB2500C I won't buy because even though they're supposed to be MoCA 1.1, their ethernet ports are maxed out at 100Mbps because they don't have Gb ports. Hopefully, someone else can add additional information.

    *Well, I think I may have figured it out. I believe by design an actual connection will be made by daisy chaining since TiVo hasn't disabled the ethernet port while a unit is joining a MoCA network. However, it seems to be designed to use ethernet as the connection to the net when it detects a cable being plugged in. I went into network settings and told it use the MoCA connection so it would be joining the MoCA network and it told me it can't (or won't) use the MoCA until the ethernet cable is unplugged. Once I did that, then it was setup to strictly use the MoCA. See, that's why its slowing down. The Plus thinks its main connection to the network is through the ethernet port when in fact its MoCA. So it sends everything through the ethernet port only to have sent back down and through the Plus. Basically, it works but since it has to bounce around (being confused) it slows down. So it looks like I will have to look into a separate MoCA bridge for my setup.
     
  6. Sep 13, 2014 #386 of 1812
    waxon

    waxon New Member

    18
    0
    Sep 13, 2014
    Hello! New user, very close to making my Tivo purchase...

    Couple questions about setup.

    Planning on a Roamio Basic plus 2 Minis.

    Have an existing Moca network on Fios.

    In a slightly unusual turn of events, will be using cable tv to feed the Roamio.

    The Roamio basic will be directly connected to the to one of the ethernet ports on the Fios moca enabled router.

    I will have 1 mini also connected via ethernet to the Fios router, and 1 mini via moca on a coax cable connected to the fios moca network.

    My questions -

    #1) in this setup does the Roamio basic still need a moca adapter even though it is connected directly to the Fios router which is creating the moca network?

    #2) does the cable tv line need a POE filter, or does it not matter since the moca network is not on that coax line?

    Thanks for the assistance!
     
  7. Sep 13, 2014 #387 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

    2,781
    8
    Mar 21, 2004
    Basically yes. Chances are the Plus is creating a second moca network, causing a packet battle (the slowdown). This has been known to happen sometimes. The head-scratcher is figuring out how to stop the Plus from doing that and if there are any settings on the AE that might help. Using basic switches usually works fine, but routers are questionable.
     
  8. Sep 13, 2014 #388 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

    2,781
    8
    Mar 21, 2004
    I think I understand what you want to accomplish. Two completely separate coax runs -- one from cable, the other from Verizon?

    The base Roamio doesn't need a moca adapter if it's connected to the router for its connection. (That wouldn't work anyway since the Roamio is getting coax from the separate cable feed.) The Mini you planned on using moca for is the question... If it's connected to the Fios coax runs as you said, then it'll be fine too.

    The POE filter isn't needed on the cabletv run since no moca would be running through it.
     
  9. Sep 13, 2014 #389 of 1812
    waxon

    waxon New Member

    18
    0
    Sep 13, 2014
    Yes, 2 cable runs exist, one from cable and one from Verizon. I probably should have attempted to make a diagram :eek:

    Thanks for answering - some of the information I was reading was a bit conflicting so I appreciate the confirmation.

    Most everything I read online said the base Roamio needs a moca adapter but that perplexed me when I was planning on using a direct connection to a moca router (guess the information I was reading just wanted to keep things simple).

    Much appreciated!
     
  10. Sep 16, 2014 #390 of 1812
    Flyin_Taco

    Flyin_Taco New Member

    11
    0
    Dec 5, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    Howdy!

    I'm having issues trying to connect my Tivo Premiere to my Tivo Roamio Plus via Moca. I have my RP MoCa bridge enabled. My premiere has an Actiontec MoCA network adapter. When I go to Network>settings>change settings> The only prompts I see are modify ethernet settings, connect using wireless n, or use phone line. There are no MoCA settings. My Network adapter connected only has two green lights illuminated. Power and ethernet. The coax light is not on. My cable comes into the house and from there goes to a drop tap.[​IMG]

    The output side goes into the house where it hits an identical tap. One side goes to the Roamio Pro and theh other to my cable modem. The tap side on the outside goes into an amp. [​IMG]

    That goes into the RF input side on the amp. The output side goes to a splitter [​IMG]

    and then up to the bedroom where I am trying to connect the Premiere. Are the taps my problem, or do I need a different amp? Many thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Sep 16, 2014 #391 of 1812
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    There is so much wrong with the pictures and descriptions, my impulse is to say "take all of that out, and start over"...

    Those "tap" type splitters (which aren't really true "splitters") are a potential problem on their own, plus you have an amp in the path the MoCA will be trying to go.

    All ports through which your MoCA needs to traverse, need to be downstream of the amp. I'd go as far as to put the PoE filter on the OUT port of the amp, rather than the IN port, once placed at the most upstream place it can be (if you truly need the amp).

    Amps don't let MoCA pass through them. Unbalanced "tap" splitters like those, are also the least MoCA-friendly ones you could use, due to the imbalanced nature.

    Two-way splitters give -3.5dB loss each OUT port. Taps are -1dB on the OUT port, and -6dB on the TAP port.

    Those exact antronix ones you are using, I had a handful of, that caused nothing but trouble, just to try and use one for my cable modem. I switched to SVI/CommScope brand, and the problems with the signal errors went away. This didn't even involve MoCA!

    EDIT/ADD: I'm not saying you can't use taps with MoCA, just that they require more care in how you place them, if you actually need them for some reason. They can come in handy, like for putting your CM on the -6 tap, then having a run of coax that is long on the OUT port, or just a run that winds up being split more on the OUT. I just prefer to not use them, unless there's no other way to get the signal you need, where you need it.

    I also see a suspicious coax connector, with a taper to it. If you can replace that coax run, with one with non-tapered ends, I suggest you do. Tapered ends usually are tapering down to substandard shield coax.

    How many PoE filters do you have, do you have a Tuning Adapter? If so: Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo.

    How's your selection of any more splitters you might have around?
     
  12. Sep 16, 2014 #392 of 1812
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

    3,647
    5
    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    That's not always true. While I agree with you that it is generally best to avoid using powered amps with MoCA because it can potentially cause problems, I actually have a powered amp (as well as 2 2-way splitters) sitting between my Roamio Plus and the Actiontec MoCA adapter at my router, and I have never had any problems with the MoCA signals going between them.

    The problem the poster is having could be specific to the amp he is using, or it could be from using taps rather than regular splitters, or it could be from the combination of the two. It's really impossible to know for sure until he tries switching out stuff.

    My gut tells me that taps are probably worse for MoCA than regular splitters, but I have absolutely no factual basis for that assumption, so take it with a grain of salt.
     
  13. Sep 16, 2014 #393 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

    2,781
    8
    Mar 21, 2004
    The Premiere won't have moca settings. As far as the Premiere knows, it's connected by ethernet (to the adapter), so ethernet is the correct setting.

    This seems unnecessarily complicated with the directional couplers (antronix). The amp is possibly fine since it goes up to 1000 MHz, but I'd start with normal splitters and try to keep the amp upstream of the moca network regardless.

    Drop --> amp --> POE filter--> normal 1GHz 3-way splitter (modem, roamio, premiere)

    If the modem doesn't work in this scenario (it should, but if not), add a splitter before the amp and give the modem its own leg and use a 2-way splitter instead for the roamio/premiere.
     
  14. Sep 16, 2014 #394 of 1812
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Any amp or equalizer that somehow allows the MoCA to get through, is a 1% type situation, and a future problem, just waiting to happen. You must be running on the lowest possible frequency MoCA band, for that to function, and there is no way that it's not affecting the MoCA, unless the amp has a MoCA pass-band, or the MoCA is only traversing between OUTs, and not actually passing "through" the amp.

    I hope what you really mean is that the MoCA is passing between two OUT ports of the amp fine (but not involving traversing IN-OUT) to make the necessary path. That has a better shot than the 1% way.

    Under no circumstances, would I deliberately say an amp inline to MoCA is OK, or advise it. Since this person has a single-out amp, there are no OUT ports to hope MoCA could traverse between, it really needs to be placed in a manner where no MoCA is going through from IN-OUT or OUT-IN. If the amp turns out to be unnecessary, or can be isolated to use where it's not inline to where MoCA needs to pass through, that's better.

    I'd rather know your exact configuration, before I condemn it, over a possible miscommunication.
     
  15. Sep 16, 2014 #395 of 1812
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    The amp shows it has a proper pass-through RDC. So, your first suggestion fits well, if the amp is necessary.

    The second suggestion is also valid, if need be, and depending on the signals at the CM, a tap, rather than a two-way splitter, may resolve a high or low signal condition for the modem. That's how I have mine, home run to the very first split (tap in my case), which I used the tap port to -6 what was an overly-high signal to the modem, and only lose -1 before the rest splits further, but no amps involved (other than the ones in my TAs, which are bypassed with splitters).

    EDIT/ADD: You are also correct in calling the antronix parts "directional couplers", rather than "taps" (I'm having "one of those days"). They are usually referred to as a "DC6", by the Cox cable techs (who always try to take mine away from me, as they don't even want them to be used, and are not allowed to use them in their regular residential installations).
     
  16. Sep 16, 2014 #396 of 1812
    Flyin_Taco

    Flyin_Taco New Member

    11
    0
    Dec 5, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    Thanks for the info. So an update: I got rid of the amp and taps and I now have the coax feed going into a 2 way splitter. One leg comes into the house to another 2 way splitter which feeds the Roamio Pro on one side and the Cable Modem on the other. Back to the other leg where the feed comes in: I have that going straight to the Moca Network adapter and then the Premier. That particular cable run is very long....I'm guessing 150 ft... maybe more...but it's all RG-59. I'm guessing that is where my trouble is. Any other thoughts?
     
  17. Sep 16, 2014 #397 of 1812
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

    3,647
    5
    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    That's a problem. RG-59 is not good for higher frequencies like the ones used for MoCA.
     
  18. Sep 16, 2014 #398 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

    2,781
    8
    Mar 21, 2004
    Ah, yes that's interesting. You really want RG6.
     
  19. Sep 17, 2014 #399 of 1812
    Flyin_Taco

    Flyin_Taco New Member

    11
    0
    Dec 5, 2004
    Tacoma, WA
    Looks like I'll be buying some at The Depot manana.
     
  20. Sep 17, 2014 #400 of 1812
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

    3,647
    5
    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    Get quad shielded if possible.
     

Share This Page