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Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Jun 8, 2014 #281 of 1812
    eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    Such is not the case as the Moca standards are throughly tested and certified including passing FCC licensing requirements. The only possible interference could be if two nearby homes both had Moca implented over their Ota antennas but even then, the dual antennas would have to be touching each other for any possible RF interference to occur. The type of power transmission over a copper medium is not the same as a radiating antenna source, for interference to occur, there would need to be some type of unlicensed rouge megawatt power booster as the interference would occur due to the highly magnified signal leaking into nearby frequencies other than what is assigned to Moca.

    The FCC make very demanding certifications for anything used in the United States residential area, go to the Fcc website with the Fcc number of any Moca adapter including any Tivo dvr that has builtin Moca and you will find pages beyond pages of the products testing results were the certifying testing company puts the product though every documented configuration including other tests to certify that the power, modulation and frequency of a communication device will not interfere with other unintended devices.

    Think of what happens when you pull the coax cable out of a Tivo, be cable, digital cable or OTA, usually the signal drops as soon as the center wire looses the smallest amount of contact and doesn't work at all with the cable laying next to the Tivo unattached as there is hardly none if any radiating RF signal, a direct copper conducting contact must be made to allow the signal to be processed regardless of the frequency.

    :up:

    If it makes you feel better you can install a filter if makes you feel good but unless your antenna coax runs outside your residence such as an apartment were someone unauthorized might be able to physically connection to and tap into it, there is no need for a poe filter with a Ota antenna setup while using Moca BUT the real issue would be why you connect to a MOCA adapter to an antenna unless you had some type of large external antenna servicing several receivers as typically it's a point to point connection from the antenna to the receiver.
     
  2. Jun 8, 2014 #282 of 1812
    TheBatman

    TheBatman New Member

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    Thanks all. Usually I think of myself as fairly tech savvy but not sure I follow all of this. :)

    BigJim, I was indeed thinking of having the Roamio on the MoCA coax, not on ethernet. In other words, the antenna drop is split into 3 coax in the utility room. The Roamio is on the end of one split in the living room. Somehow via MoCA it can send programming to the other 2 splits (which service TVs in other rooms). I had assume the Minis could just be on the wifi for internet, just like the Roamio is. That's the idea anyway...
     
  3. Jun 8, 2014 #283 of 1812
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    Ah, Tivo doesn't "officially" support wireless for streaming to Minis, since it's not always reliable. You could try it, but it's very "you're mileage may vary".

    If running ethernet to the Roamio is not possible or desireable, you could add the Roamio to the moca network with a second moca adapter.

    1. Add a splitter to one of the legs going to a Mini. One leg goes to a Mini, the other to the moca adapter. Connect the moca adapter's ethernet to the router. (Ignore the RF-out on this adapter.)

    2. Connect the second moca adapter behind the Roamio as shown below. All Tivo devices should then be able to connect to the moca network.

    [​IMG]

    So basically this is your setup from a 3-way OTA drop:

    - One leg goes to Mini.
    - One leg goes to splitter. Mini on one leg, moca#1 on the other. (Connect adapter's ethernet to router. Ignore RF-out.)
    - One leg goes to moca#2. Both ethernet and RF-out go to Roamio.
     
  4. Jun 9, 2014 #284 of 1812
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    That's silly, wire-based transmission has nothing to do with MoCA OTA. Agree completely with eboydog, at these power levels you're not going to interfere with anyone OTA and you don't need a PoE filter for it. Not to mention that the freqs won't interfere with broadcast anyway even if there was some leakage OTA.
     
  5. Jun 9, 2014 #285 of 1812
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    My own words on MoCA, with OTA in the equation.
     
  6. Jun 9, 2014 #286 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    What adapters run at frequencies that would interfere with cable, excluding DirecTV DECA? I know HPNA runs this way, but the only widespread use of that is AT&T U-Verse, which doesn't need the ability to run with cable, only with relatively low-frequency VDSL installs (for the times that they use the coax balun method, although I think most just use regular phones lines to get into the house).

    I'm thinking anything big, unshielded, and metal can become a transmitting antenna... MoCA uses a LOT of power too, as it can blast through several levels of splitters...

    I'm just imagining someone doing it, and the FCC van pulling up to cite the user for a violation...

    AFAIK, MoCA was NOT designed to work with OTA, only cable or nothing.

    Read posts 276 and 277. That's irrelevant.

    But are they licensed for use with OTA gear? As I understand it, they are for cable only. Of course, they would have to forsee that someone would plug it into an OTA source...

    And how would it not become a massive transmitting antenna? The power levels are far higher, the antenna larger, and the frequencies lower than Wifi...

    Yeah, but they're used for something, even though it's not broadcast.
     
  7. Jun 9, 2014 #287 of 1812
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    MOTOROLA SBM1000 SURFboard MoCA SMART Video Coax Adapter 10/100 Base-T Ethernet (RJ-45)

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825390003

    While the advertising makes this sound like just another MoCA adapter set, it's meant for point-to-point, or star-topology, MoCA (ONLY) communication, without having the actual cable/satellite/OTA frequencies also present on the coax. It's a high-performance "ethernet to MoCA to ethernet w/4-port switch" MODEM/BRIDGE setup.

    If you don't read all the specifics, some could mistake this for something that co-exists with frequencies already on the coax. These adapters need the coax all to themselves.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2014 #288 of 1812
    poppagene

    poppagene User

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    True
     
  9. Jun 10, 2014 #289 of 1812
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    Only way to truly know is to hook it up and then measure it with a spectrum analyzer or something. Even if it shows a signal at some small amplitude, as long as it's below the noise floor (-40db down?) then there shouldn't be an issue I'd think.
     
  10. Jun 10, 2014 #290 of 1812
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Exactly, it's just going to be random noise at those power levels. People are way overthinking this for OTA.
     
  11. Jun 10, 2014 #291 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    That supports MoCA band D which is compatible with cable, and MoCA band E, which is DirecTV's DECA. They do not support MoCA band C, which is FIOS WAN, although very few standalone adapters do.

    They definitely do NOT need the cable to themselves. Quite to the contrary.

    The whole point of MoCA is to co-exist with cable or DirecTV. I don't think most adapters can do band E, however, as they are made for cable, and DirecTV has their own equipment for DECA.

    Those not only look like a good deal, but they would also survive a switch from cable/FIOS to DirecTV or visa versa, which most adapters would not.
     
  12. Jun 11, 2014 #292 of 1812
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    In my own haste, I posted the wrong link (there was a different product, I had went to get the link for).

    NewEgg did have a set of point-to-point MoCA adapters, very similar to these, which not only specified they were not to share the coax, but people bought them without reading those details, then gave bad reviews due to not researching what they were buying. Some did read the specifics, understood, loved the other one, and posted great reviews about it doing a great job, for MoCA-only transmission, over a long distance.

    My guess is the product from over a month ago is no longer stocked, and may no longer be made. I seem to recall it being a discontinued and clearance item.

    I get that MoCA is all about using the coax for more than just networking (and more than just cable/satellite). That's why I went back to grab a link. I just found the next-best thing.

    As you say, it's a pretty good product (at face-value, going by the specs).

    I'd love to hear from anybody that has (or obtains) the actual one I posted the link to. It sounds promising, versatile, and may be somewhat future-proof (if MoCA 2.0 is just a firmware update away).
     
  13. Jun 11, 2014 #293 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Interesting. It sounds like they were using a lower frequency channel to get lower losses over a long distance, but that's still idiotic to make a product that can only work on frequencies that overlap with cable TV, and not have an option to work either way.
     
  14. Jun 11, 2014 #294 of 1812
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    It makes sense if the product is designed to work over coax without any other signals.
     
  15. Jun 12, 2014 #295 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Except that it makes for a nightmare when people buy it thinking it will work the way MoCA was intended to work- i.e. coexist with cable.
     
  16. Jun 14, 2014 #296 of 1812
    fish62858

    fish62858 New Member

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    please forgive my newbie ignorance, but after ten pages of this thread i am quite confused... i am not terribly tech savy and that is part of it...

    i have a dsl modem/router, one roamio basic and one mini in another room
    and a mohu leaf antenna for live tv...
    currently both tivo devices are connected to the router by ethernet cables, but there is a long cat 5 run and it is drawing my wife's complaints...
    i have tried to understand the moca business but most everything i've read talks about cable internet modems and i can't keep straight in my head how it differs from my ota situation...

    i currently have the dsl router near the mini because the dsl into the house is on a jack in the bedroom where the mini is located, and the long cat5 run goes down the hall to the living room to the roamio basic...
    i'd like to eliminate the long cat5 run and understand the moca can accomplish that but just can't visualize how it should be done...

    i appreciate your patience and suggestions...
     
  17. Jun 14, 2014 #297 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Read back in this thread about the debate about MoCA working with OTA. The answer is, yes, it will work with OTA. I'd personally put a POE filter on the main line in from the antenna, but apparently it's not really needed.

    So a pair of MoCA adapters will do what you want, and at that point, it doesn't really matter if you connect the Mini to MoCA or Ethernet, as it will go through MoCA from the Roamio one way or another...
     
  18. Jun 14, 2014 #298 of 1812
    fish62858

    fish62858 New Member

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    thanks for the response Bigg... i'll go back through all these pages again later...

    if the mini is moca compatible, why do i need two moca adapters?
    i'm thinking i don't really understand the connections...
    where in this scenario am i going wrong?

    1- moca adapter at the dsl router with ethernet cable connecting router to adapter? and ethernet cable connecting roamio to router?
    2- coax from the wall jack to the adapter?
    3- coax from the antenna into the roamio?

    4- in other room, coax from wall jack connects to the mini?

    5- then tell the units the use the moca?

    help! :-(
     
  19. Jun 14, 2014 #299 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    You said your DSL modem is by the Mini, not the Roamio. The Mini can NOT bridge between MoCA and Ethernet, so you need to use an adapter to do that. You'd only need one if you could locate your DSL router with your Roamio, or swap the Roamio with the Mini, since then the Mini would just use MoCA.

    If you connect the Mini via Ethernet, you would NOT connect it via MoCA. If you connect it via MoCA, you would NOT connect it via Ethernet.

    And in that, you forgot the MoCA adapter with the Roamio.

    I was going to say that you need to make sure that all your coax is tied together, but since you're using a small indoor antenna, you can actually keep the MoCA totally separate from the OTA line, just by tying the line that goes from the Roamio location to the Mini location directly together in the basement/attic, and then using that only for MoCA with no cable or OTA.
     
  20. Jun 14, 2014 #300 of 1812
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Or you could just get your drill out and do hardwired CAT-6. I've done that with 5e a few times at my parents' place, not for TiVo, but for computers...
     

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