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Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by BigJimOutlaw, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Feb 23, 2014 #221 of 1814
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    TiVo does not want any WiFi used in streaming, I not saying with a good home network you can't do good streaming, but TiVo had too many home network problems with streaming so they went to MoCA or direct RJ45 only. Some people have gotten around this by using their own WiFi bridge that has a RJ45 output.
     
  2. Feb 24, 2014 #222 of 1814
    mmaben

    mmaben New Member

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    Feb 23, 2014
    Oh trust me, there's plenty here I don't understand :confused:

    I 'think' I have it figgered out now but it's amazing how tivo markets this to the general public with the info they do. Their instructions for setting up a moca network says "If you have an Ethernet connection accessible to your Roamio Plus/Pro or Premiere 4/XL4/Elite, you can use the DVR's built-in MoCA network adapter to turn your home network into a MoCA network! " Makes it sound like there's already a moca adapter built in to the RP. Great ! I don't need to go buy one ! It kinda makes sense once you figure it out but what a hair pulling experience if you're not an IT tech type (like you guys ;) ).

    So, I'll take my netgear 6300 (now between the modem and computer in my office) into the living room, ethernet to my RP (do I need the modem too ?), create a moca network, take it back to the office, buy a moca adapter, install it at the router (do I need to reconfigure the RP for wireless ?), and I should be good to go ???
    I'll also stick a poe filter at the splitter outside (heard that helps :up: )
     
  3. Feb 24, 2014 #223 of 1814
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    I think you're still a little confused. There IS moca built into the Roamio plus and pro and you CAN bridge it to your Ethernet network creating a moca network without needed an adapter. They're just telling you that the Ethernet signal source that you're using to modulate to the moca signal needs to be a wired one, not wifi. So if your Roamio plus/pro isn't co located with a wired Ethernet signal, then you either must move your Roamio to the wired Ethernet, or move your modem/router combo to the Roamio, or as it seems you're doing, buy a different moca adapter (because the one built into your Roamio can't be used due to location).
    the only thing you'd have to do if you buy a moca adapter because you can't use the one built into the Roamio is the last half of that (buy a moca adapter and install it at the router, as long as there's also a coax connection there, which there probably is for your cable modem)
     
  4. Feb 24, 2014 #224 of 1814
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    Very simply, there are 2 ways to create a moca network:

    1. Connect the RP via ethernet and tell it to create a moca network.

    2. If an ethernet run to the RP is not practical, connect a moca adapter to the router to create the moca network.

    Your option is #2. You don't need to move your router. Just buy a moca adapter and connect it to your router as illustrated in the first post of this thread. This will create the moca network.

    Then in the RP and Mini's network settings, select MoCA for both. (Do not select "Use this DVR to create...").
     
  5. Feb 24, 2014 #225 of 1814
    Loach

    Loach New Member

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    Jan 11, 2013
    Omaha, NE
    I think some people get confused about MoCA because they don't understand that you need the MoCA bridge to be a permanent physical link between your Ethernet network and your coaxial cable.

    MoCA is just a way to extend your Ethernet network into your coaxial cable plant. Sometimes people seem to think that creating a MoCA network is something like a firmware update where you hook up the MoCA adapter to the router and coax, that "creates the MoCA network" and then you can remove the bridge. You can't! You have to maintain a permanent physical link between the router and the coax.

    That permanent link can be made via a Tivo DVR with built-in MoCA, such as Premiere 4 or XL4 (but not a 2-tuner Premiere) or a Roamio Pro or Plus (but not a base Roamio). Or the link can be made using a MoCA adapter.

    In my setup, although I have two Tivo DVRs that COULD serve as MoCA bridges to create the MoCA network, I cannot use them to do so because neither one is anywhere near an Ethernet connection point in my home. So instead, I'm using an Actiontec MoCA adapter to create the permanent, physical link between my Ethernet network and my Coax plant. For me, that's located in my basement utility room, where I have both an Ethernet switch that's connected to my router, and all my home runs of coax.
     
  6. Feb 24, 2014 #226 of 1814
    SOCATivo

    SOCATivo New Member

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    Jan 2, 2002
    RSM, CA
    Thanks for all the help! I now have my system working the way I want, and 3 spare ethernet ports for my XBMC and anything else!

    I got a secondhand Verizon cable modem, turned off most of the capability and used is as a Moca switch. It has 4 ethernet ports. Total cost about $20 on eBay!

    (Edit: BTW the in-wall amp I mentioned earlier is actually in the outside cable box, easy enough to get to).
     
  7. Feb 24, 2014 #227 of 1814
    mmaben

    mmaben New Member

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    Feb 23, 2014
    Well there definitely 'is' a language barrier here. When non tech people see that this device has it's own moca adapter and it's own router, they assume they have everything they need built in to set up a lan. You don't find out you need another doohickey unless you dig deeper online. I went to Bestbuy to get a moca adapter last night and the kids there had never heard of them. They don't sell them in store so I ordered one from the tivo store (cheaper anyway).

    So, thank you all very much for your help, who knows how much time and hair I would have lost trying to figure this out on my own but I thot I would ask here before calling TS.
    p.s. this forum needs a hair pulling icon :rolleyes:
     
  8. Feb 24, 2014 #228 of 1814
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Then why is Wifi included in the Roamio? But not for the connected Minis? No matter which way you look at it, there is a logic fail in there.

    Cool. You mean MoCA router? Those aren't really the modems, just a bridge in from the modem in the ONT.

    It is designed to have everything you need, you just run Ethernet directly from your router to your TiVo Roamio. Obviously, this won't cover setups where you can't get an Ethernet line between them, but this is the idea with the built-in MoCA.

    Why is everyone so confused about MoCA? It's not that hard. It's just another physical medium for Ethernet to run over. We've seen in the past coax (10Base2) and phone lines (HPNA), and today, we can use electrical wiring (HomeplugAV), wireless, Cat-5e/6, or cable TV coax (MoCA). All have various advantages and disadvantages, but they all fundamentally run an IP network over something. Basically everyone has some ethernet, I happen to have ethernet, ABGN900 wireless, HomeplugAV, and MoCA. I would replace the HomeplugAV connection with MoCA or Wifi, but I'm too cheap/lazy and I had the adapters sitting around.
     
  9. Feb 24, 2014 #229 of 1814
    SOCATivo

    SOCATivo New Member

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    Jan 2, 2002
    RSM, CA
    No, it's actually a Verizon cable modem which has MoCA capability. It has a WAN port (unused, as I am not connecting this to the WAN), four ethernet ports and a WiFi capability (I use to extend the signal of my WiFi - just a bonus).

    Here's a link to the documentation if you're interested.

    http://onlinehelp.verizon.net/consumer/bin/pdf/Vz9100EM_user_guide.pdf

    Edit - model number is 9100EM, you can Google.
     
  10. Feb 24, 2014 #230 of 1814
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    CT
    I may be hard to believe, but some people just have one Roamio and don't care about streaming, they just use the built in WiFi and they are good to go, if they get a 2nd Roamio they can still xfer the programs between them without using streaming. The WiFi is not useful on any Roamio that you want connected to a Mini.
    It may be of some interest as to how many people on this Forum do not stream and use just the built in WiFi, the number would much smaller than the general public it think.
     
  11. Feb 25, 2014 #231 of 1814
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Hartford-...
    That is NOT a modem. The "modem" is basically the ONT. That's just a router that takes MoCA WAN and routes it to ethernet, Wifi, and MoCA LAN. Verizon provides cable TV, but not internet. The internet is handled by the ONT.

    That's surprising. It should have plenty of bandwidth to handle the internet connectivity to a Roamio/Mini setup if they allowed it. I have a Premiere/Mini setup, and I don't stream anything. Mine ends up going through a PowerLine AV500 (plus a couple of switches) to get back to my router, and that's quite a bit slower than Wifi (~20mbps on Powerline AV500, ~100mbps on Wifi).
     
  12. Feb 25, 2014 #232 of 1814
    SOCATivo

    SOCATivo New Member

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    RSM, CA
    Precisely the reason I went to MoCa was because my AV500's wouldn't cut it. I guess it depends on the wiring path and whatever else is providing noise within your electrics.
     
  13. Feb 26, 2014 #233 of 1814
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Yeah, AV500 is so erratic that it makes Wifi look reliable! I just had the adapters laying around from an apartment that I had before, so I used them. I should really just get a pair of MoCA adapters or even better, a Wifi AC router/bridge, but I'm too cheap. The thing is, 20mbps on the AV500 is fast enough for HD streaming downstairs, but even AC isn't really fast enough for moving files around, so I don't see too much benefit for my own use. Some day, I will own my own house, and I will be able to do it the right way and hard wire CAT-6 everywhere...
     
  14. Mar 31, 2014 #234 of 1814
    neo_ny

    neo_ny New Member

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    Mar 26, 2014
    Hi Everyone,

    I am trying to get MoCa to work so that I can use a Mini with my Roamio basic. Since I have FIOS I believe I need only one MoCa adapter to make this work but I haven't been able to get it to work yet. Can someone please comment on what I am doing wrong? The connection I have is as follows:

    i) Coax from wall to COAX IN port on MoCa adapter (bought it from Tivo)
    ii) Coax from TV/STB port on MoCa adapter to coax in on my FIOS modem/router
    iii) Ethernet from MoCa adapter to FIOS modem/router
    iv) Ethernet from FIOS modem/router to Roamio
    v) Coax from wall to coax in on Roamio

    When I do this everything works on my Roamio box but the mini is unable to connect via MoCa.

    Can someone please comment if I have the setup right for this work?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  15. Mar 31, 2014 #235 of 1814
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    Raleigh, NC
    I don't have FIOS, so someone please correct me if I am wrong. But I think the FIOS modem/router has MoCA built in, so if you have your Roamio directly connected to your FIOS router with ethernet, then I don't think you need a MoCA adapter at all. If the Roamio is connected to the FIOS modem with ethernet cable, and the FIOS modem is connected via coax cable to your house's coax network, and the mini is connected via coax cable to your house's coax network, it should work. So try removing that extra MoCA adapter from the mix and see if it works.
     
  16. Apr 1, 2014 #236 of 1814
    lapdog12

    lapdog12 Member

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    Dec 14, 2013
    I'm sorry for the noob question but I have a roamio pro and I've just ordered a mini to add in another room. My roamio pro is hooked up directly via Ethernet so I won't need a moca adapter but i have a tuning adapter. I'm a little confused by the diagram. If I don't use the RF OUT on the TA how does it "tune in the channels"? I guess I don't really understand how a TA works. I thought it's "tunes" the channels as in the channel changes happen through that device. I'm sorry for what could be a basic question but I want to make sure I set this up correctly when I get all the pieces in.

    Thanks for any tips and advice.
     
  17. Apr 1, 2014 #237 of 1814
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    Raleigh, NC
    The tuning adapter doesn't actually "tune" the channel in the traditional sense. The tuners are located in the Roamio not the tuning adapter. The tuning adapter just sends the signal out to request that a SDV channel be sent through. Once that channel is being sent through, it is tuned in by the Roamio in the same way that any other non-SDV channel is tuned.

    The only communication that takes place between the Roamio and the tuning adapter is through the USB cable. That's why the RF out port on the tuning adapter isn't needed, because absolutely no communication between the 2 devices takes place through the coax. If you aren't using MoCA, then you can use the RF output rather than a cable splitter if you'd like. But if you are using MoCA, then you need to use the splitter instead of the pass-though, as the RF pass-through on the tuning adapter will most likely interfere with MoCA signals.
     
  18. Apr 1, 2014 #238 of 1814
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    Mar 21, 2004
    The FiOS router has moca support built-in. You don't need the adapter at the router. That's creating the problem. Remove it. :) That alone should fix everything.

    If your Roamio basic is connected to the router by ethernet, you don't need a moca adapter at all. You only need the moca adapter if you can't or would rather not use ethernet for its connection. You can choose ethernet or moca, but it's not necessary to use both in your case.

    If you do choose to use moca for the Roamio basic's connection, remove its ethernet connection to the router and install the moca adapter to the coax behind the Roamio as shown below. Then everything -- Roamio and Mini -- will connect to the moca network coming from your Fios router.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Apr 1, 2014 #239 of 1814
    neo_ny

    neo_ny New Member

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    Mar 26, 2014
    Thank you everyone for your input!

    If indeed I don't need an adapter I wasted $$ by ordering them from TiVo! I checked with the TiVo support and they mentioned I would need atleast one (two if my router was not MoCa enabled). I am going to give it a try later today without the adapter and see if that takes care of it!
     
  20. Apr 1, 2014 #240 of 1814
    tatergator1

    tatergator1 Active Member

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    Mar 27, 2008
    Columbus, Ohio
    It's likely the Tivo representative was confused or misunderstood that you would connect the Roamio Basic directly to your router via Ethernet. If Ethernet wasn't available for the Roamio Basic, you would have needed the one MoCA adapter.
     

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