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Series 3 stuck in "Welcome! Powering up..." loop

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by mpthompson, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Dec 10, 2012 #81 of 223
    HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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  2. Dec 10, 2012 #82 of 223
    cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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  3. Dec 11, 2012 #83 of 223
  4. Dec 11, 2012 #84 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    I've had a few of that model over the years.

    You know the part of the handle right behind the flare where you hold it?

    Eventually you'll wish you had some sort of insulation and padding around that if you're using that iron for an extended period of time.

    If you use it on the power supply board, especially the negative capacitor leads that are soldered to the relatively large ground plane (wide expanse of copper which will be dissapating the heat you're trying to apply), then you'll be holding it a long time.


    If you're determined to go with a Weller Marksman iron, at least get the 40 Watt version.

    http://www.amazon.com/Weller-SP40L-Marksman-Watt-Soldering/dp/B00018AR40

    If you're just determined to use an iron instead of a gun, consider this de-soldering iron from Radio Shack

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731

    one of the few Radio Shack products I'm likely to say anything nice about.

    If you want to get it from Amazon, here's the same thing at double the price with somebody else's name on it.

    http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG

    If it can melt solder to remove it, it can be used to flow new solder.

    As previously mentioned, get some rosin core tin and lead alloy solder to melt into the old solder to help it melt (they call the rosin "flux" because it helps the molten solder "flow").

    Diameter should be at least around 0.030", 0.060" would be okay, 0.090" is starting to get on the fat side.
     
  5. Dec 11, 2012 #85 of 223
    cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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    I'm just thinking that an iron will be easier to use than a gun.

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  6. Dec 11, 2012 #86 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    A gun will deliver more heat more quickly.


    If you have to get the 25Watt Marksman, get the version that includes the tip that holds an X-acto knife #11 blade, so you can use it to cut plastic as well.
     
  7. Feb 3, 2013 #87 of 223
    cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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    Finally got around to doing this today. A couple hiccups, but replaced all three and am back up and running.

    Thanks for all the help!
     
  8. Feb 3, 2013 #88 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Better late than "never quite got around to it". :)

    Congrats.

    Now tell us what soldering equipment you used.
     
  9. Feb 3, 2013 #89 of 223
    cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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  10. Feb 23, 2013 #90 of 223
    busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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    Looks like I too have this problem now on my old S3-HD that's in the bedroom. Here are the details:

    1. One night I noticed that the green light was flashing. I turned the TV on and there was no signal coming out of the TiVo and the box was unresponsive to the remote.

    2. I powercycled and the box came back, but just traversing the menus was kind of slow and it appeared to occasionally freeze, as opposed to just hanging, as the background animation would occasionally stop.

    3. After a while, it spontaneously rebooted and at that point was just in a reboot loop. It would say "welcome! powering up", then it would get to "Almost There!", then after about 5 minutes it would reboot again.

    4. Multiple powercycles yielded the same boot loop results, even after letting the box sit unpowered for a couple of days.

    5. I tried to kickstart, but according to the instructions "as the TiVo box restarts, all four LED lights on the front bezel of the box will be on at the same time", and I'm supposed to wait for them to go out. At no time were the other lights on. I even tried holding pause for the whole time, but the yellow light never came on.

    6. I tried popping the second cablecard out, but not only did that not let the box boot up, it now boot loops faster, rebooting before it even gets to "Almost There".​


    Maybe it's power supply, maybe it's the drive. Either way, I'm probably just going to replace the box rather than fix it... especially since upgrading to a Premiere will let me stream recordings from the living room Premiere to the new bedroom Premiere (something I couldn't do with the S3 with copy-protected recordings, which with my cable provider is all recordings except ones from broadcast channels).

    Too bad this didn't happen a couple of months ago, when TiVo had a sale going. :)


    What I want to know is: is there is any way I can salvage the recordings currently on the S3?
     
  11. Feb 23, 2013 #91 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Without fixing the S3? I'm pretty sure not, and if that's a 652 and not a 648, then you can't move the crypto chip to move the TSN, to which those recordings are tied.
     
  12. Feb 25, 2013 #92 of 223
    cdewitt

    cdewitt New Member

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    I had a bad pwr supply (caps bulging) - purchased a weaknees replacement, and the Welcome! error came up! So, upgraded the hard drive with the live cd, and same Welcome! error. Replaced the original drive, and same error. Looked closer, and I had forgotten to reattach the SATA to Motherboard connector. Plugged it back in, and all is in order. Recording now! :)
     
  13. Mar 16, 2013 #93 of 223
    karen g.

    karen g. New Member

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    First off, there are some really smart people on these forums. I don't understand most of what all of you are talking about! LOL My TiVo had been stuck in the Welcome screen since Wednesday (it is Saturday.) I tried the old unplugging, plugging back in several times. At one point, box didn't light up at all. Uh, oh...is it dead for good? I patiently waited and out of nowhere, display lit up again and started cycling the Welcome again. Phew. At least I knew it was trying again. I went on this forum today and read many of your posts with my head spinning (flux capacitors...what? No wonder people pay big bucks to get new ones.) I learned about the Kickstart, tried it several times, tivo never even accepted it. I read one post about the cable cards. I had nothing to lose. I ejected both cable cards. For the first time since Wednesday, the Welcome screen advanced to the Almost There screen. OMG! I waited patiently and it went to the Cable Card screen. I pushed in Card 1 and it went back to the resetting screen. Uh oh...not again. I waited patiently. It accepted it and went back to the Cable Card screen asking for Card 2. I pushed that in and the whole process started again. Eventually, it accepted both cards and is now functioning again!!! I totally thought I was about to buy a whole new tivo, but thanks to all of your posts about your experiences, you saved me lots of money. It may only be temporarily, but at least I got it back for now. Maybe I can at least catch up on my recordings before any future troubles. Seeing as all of you helped me so much, I felt it only fair to spend some time to share my experience in case it helps the next person! Thanks, everyone!!!
     
  14. Mar 16, 2013 #94 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    It is temporary, those cable cards use power, taking them out lowered the overall power demand, especially the extra power demand at startup, when the hard drive motor needs more to get it started than it will to keep it spinning a few seconds later.

    So if you had to take some of the load off of your power supply so that it could start the TiVo, including getting the hard drive going (the first welcome screen is on the motherboard, the second one that says just a few minutes is on the hard drive), that means your power supply can't really do the job any more which means it's starting to fail and is going to get worse and not better.

    The good news is we're talking about replacing about $10 worth of parts.

    Look on the back on the sticker where the power cord plugs in and tell us the model number that starts with TCD.

    Then tell us your geographic location.
     
  15. Mar 17, 2013 #95 of 223
    karen g.

    karen g. New Member

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    Did I mention how smart you are? Tivo worked fine last night; caught up on the rest of 30 Rock. Today, went back to Welcome screen. Ugh. This time, I only went through the process of Cable Card 1 hoping I can at least get tonight's shows recorded.

    I am in Rhode Island. Model #: TCD648250B (at least I think that is correct; it was really hard to read the print on the sticker, so the last is either a B or an 8-hard to tell)

    You say $10, but I don't know if I can go through the whole soldering thing you are all discussing. :(

    Thanks for your response! :)

    ps: So, does that mean the hard drive is ok then?
     
  16. Mar 17, 2013 #96 of 223
    jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    The hard drive is probably okay as long as it is not louder than normal. Increase noise could be a bearing issue which would increase power demand. The most likely problem is what unitron stated. If you are adverse to soldering then some people bought the capacitors and took it to an electronic repair shop to have them replaced. Other potential places would be the local high school electronic shop class or local technical college.
     
  17. Mar 17, 2013 #97 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    It is a B as in Baker, although I don't know if there are any TCD648250s out there that aren't Bs. Not everything that TiVo does makes sense to us mere mortals.

    Anyway, you have the first of the Series 3 platform models, often referred to as the S3 OLED because of the Organic Light Emitting Diode display on the front (the clock and stuff), which other models don't have.

    Also sometimes called the 648.

    Despite the big HD on the box it came in, if you see S3 HD somewhere, it's probably someone talking about the next of the Series 3s, the TCD652160, which TiVo just called the HD.

    Unlike the 652, the 648 only used one model of power supply from one subcontractor so it's possible to know in advance which capacitors probably need to be replaced.

    It'll take me a day or so to plough through old posts and my notes to get you a list.

    Start asking friends if anyone knows of a good TV or stereo repair shop in the area.


    The hard drive is probably not the immediate problem, but replacing it while you've got the box open is not a bad idea considering it's age.

    What do you have around there in the way of computers?

    Ever opened up a PC before and changed out anything inside?
     
  18. Mar 17, 2013 #98 of 223
    busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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    General question... wouldn't it be easier to replace the whole power supply than just the capacitors?


    edit: oh, wait.... the capacitors aren't on the power supply I guess, right?
     
  19. Mar 17, 2013 #99 of 223
    jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    The capacitors that unitron is talking are the ones located on the power supply. Depends on how much you want to spend. You can replace the power supply or just the capacitors. Like a lot of things, expense and ease are directly proportional.
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    There are capacitors of one kind or another on both the power supply circuit board and on the motherboard, and maybe there're one or two on the front panel circuit board as well.


    What capacitors do is useful in more than one kind of circuit, so they are made in a number of sizes, styles, capacitances, and voltages to which they can safely be subjected.


    The ones most likely to go bad due to "capacitor plague" are the ones about as big around as your little finger that are part of the 12 Volt output and the 5 Volt output sections of the power supply, and they are on the power supply circuit board.
     

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