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Series 3 stuck in "Welcome! Powering up..." loop

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by mpthompson, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Jan 23, 2012 #41 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Sounds like you've got connections at work that could handle replacing the caps on the power supply (go ahead and do it now), and probably get the parts easily as well. Just make sure they understand to use Low ESR, 105 degree temp rating.

    So, $10 maximum for replacement capacitors or $100 for a replacement power supply?
     
  2. Jan 24, 2012 #42 of 223
    mattack

    mattack Active Member

    20,743
    4
    Apr 9, 2001
    sunnyvale
    So what were your symptoms before? (I do see the message where you tested voltages..)

    did your S3 come on at all?
     
  3. Jan 25, 2012 #43 of 223
    FishTank1701

    FishTank1701 New Member

    63
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    Oct 26, 2004
    Central NJ
    Stuck in a "Welcome - Powering Up..." Loop
    Unable to perform any kickstart tests
    Ran six hour Western Digital test on drive, which it passed.
     
  4. Jan 28, 2012 #44 of 223
    penny246

    penny246 New Member

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    Jan 11, 2012
    Unfortunately, being capable and willing seem to be two different things. It looks like there is some sort of credit for a returned bad PS. At least it saved me the cost of first trying to replace the HD...
     
  5. Jan 28, 2012 #45 of 223
    goodsonit

    goodsonit New Member

    1
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    Jun 8, 2004
    I recently had the same problem after one of my CableCard failed and I had Comcast replace it and the other (working) one with a pair of M-Cards. I worked OK for about 2 weeks and then started the reboot cycle.

    My solution has been to remove one of the CableCards (top) and it then restarts OK. This does mean that I cannot use the dual record capability but at least it is working.

    I might see if I can get more replacement cards and possibly revert back to the old S-Cards (single direction) since the TIVO 3 does not support dual direction or full multi-cards anyway (even though the IVO HD does).

    Not a great solution but at least I'm operational again.

    Now if TIVO could show the love for the original HD flagship that we all spent "large" good money on and allow it to support M-cards and possibly the new HD menus it would be appreciated.
     
  6. Jan 28, 2012 #46 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    What a bunch of jerks!

    Would it have killed them to tell you how to do it, where to pick up the caps, and loaned you a soldering gun?

    My mom was born right after Coolidge succeeded Harding and I could walk her through it.
     
  7. Jan 28, 2012 #47 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Suspect your power supply, since the extra power draw of a second card seems to be what pushes it over the edge.
     
  8. Jan 29, 2012 #48 of 223
    wiz

    wiz New Member

    71
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    Jan 9, 2002
    Seacoast NH
    Original Series 3, no upgrades. Week before last, it froze and a reboot fixed it. It froze again a couple days later, and this time it stopped on the first powering up message. I suspected the hard drive but found this thread, and looked at the caps and saw one that had a domed top. I ordered a full set from from Digikey after cross comparing mine with the list in a earlier message in this thread. I replaced only the obviously bad cap, and it still didn't boot. I put a meter on the various wires on the plug that is normally connected to the motherboard.
    Orange was about +3.3V
    Red was about +5.2V
    Yellow was about 7-8V instead of +12V (Meter is a cheapo so not super accurate) I assumed there must be another cap gone so replaced the remaining ones. After that I still only show 7-8 volts on the connector to the motherboard. I then tested the yellow wire that goes to the hard drive by touching it where it's soldered to the power supply board. I shows +12V.

    I'm confused and open to all suggestions and advice.

    TODO: test the hard drive with the WD Diagnostics, and after a post today, try booting it without the cable cards. Will update when I have more.
     
  9. Jan 29, 2012 #49 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If you're getting +12V at the yellow wire at the power supply, but only 7 or 8 at the yellow wire where it plugs into the motherboard, something's big time weird.

    Pull the power supply, find where the yellow wire to the drive attaches and where the yellow wire to the motherboard attaches. Look at the bottom of the PS board. Those two wires should be attached to the same copper "land". If not, find something that connects those two connection points. I'm sure this thing must have only one +12V output rail.
     
  10. Jan 31, 2012 #50 of 223
    wiz

    wiz New Member

    71
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    Jan 9, 2002
    Seacoast NH
    Apparently I'm an idiot, :eek: and your correct, I'm getting +12V on all the yellow wires.

    Turned my attention to the hard drive...I felt it when powering up and felt no vibration or clicks. I connected it to my desktop and it won't even spin up.
    Looks like I need to go over the drive replacement FAQ. Since I don't have the original drive to clone, I'm going to need an image or InstantCake.

    I had purchased a 1TB drive from Staples when the Tivo first went down that I can still return. I also have a new 400gb drive, from a Staples Black Friday deal three years ago. If I put in the 400 gb drive now, can I upgrade later to a 1TB drive? If so, I many return the 1TB and wait for prices to come down again.
     
  11. Jan 31, 2012 #51 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    What's the brand and model number of that 400GB?

    What's the brand and model number of that 1TB? How much did you pay for it? Do you have a Best Buy around there, or anyone else who sells hard drives? (I'm not dissing Staples here)

    If that 400GB is SATA and doesn't have anything on it that needs saving, boot your TiVo without a drive attached and measure voltages, then attach the 400 and measure again.

    It won't get beyond the welcome screen either way, but that doesn't matter for a voltage test.


    For future reference, here's your image

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8921060#post8921060
     
  12. Jan 31, 2012 #52 of 223
    wiz

    wiz New Member

    71
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    Jan 9, 2002
    Seacoast NH
    The 1TB is a Seagate Barracuda and was $139 but I had $45 in Staples Rewards. Best Buy was the same price but OOS.

    The 400 is a WD Caviar SE SATA and is still new in the box. I checked the SN and it's no longer in warranty.
    I'll download the image tonight.
    THANKS!

    --=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=----=UPDATE=--2/01 12:10 AM.

    I downloaded the image and imaged the 400gb drive. The system booted up fine. After Guided Setup I realized I had forgot to do clear and delete, so it's doing that now. Thanks to all for the assistance.
    When it rains it pours, our power went out today and my SD-H400 is stuck on powering up. I've shut it down and restarted a several times. Guess I'll rip it open tomorrow.
     
  13. Mar 1, 2012 #53 of 223
    danator

    danator New Member

    43
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    Sep 18, 2006
    I had restart "Welcome - Powering Up..." looping issue just this week and i didn't go though the voltmeter checking but the capacitors look good. Here's the kicker, removed Cable cards and it booted right up! WTH.

    Turned out i can't boot the unit with both CC units plugged in. Plugged in Card 1 (bottom), booted up and waited for Tivo to show CC slot 2 empty screen, then plugged another one in, reboot and all is well.

    Anyway, It's possible that the power unit is bad, can't supply enough juice on boot-up for both CC, just guessing.
     
  14. Mar 1, 2012 #54 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Not a bad guess, actually.

    Get the voltmeter out. If you see a serious change in the 12V or 5V readings when you put a cable card in after the TiVo is already running, that means your power supply can't quite cut it anymore, and most likely it's one or more bad capacitors, regardless of how good they look.
     
  15. Mar 5, 2012 #55 of 223
    ironmike

    ironmike New Member

    10
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    Oct 8, 2008
    Just want to thank you all. My TCD658000 Tivo was stuck in the 'Welcome...' loop. After reading the posts in this thread, ran diagnosis tests on hard drives, they were good. Capacitors on power supply looked OK (all flat tops), yet power supply output voltage on yellow wire was 6.5 volts or so. Power supply appears to be the culprit, so I ordered a new power supply today from weaknees.

    Tivo users helping Tivo users works! Tivo corporate support, which I have tried in the past, does not!
     
  16. Mar 7, 2012 #56 of 223
    danator

    danator New Member

    43
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    Sep 18, 2006
    The caps aren't looking too flat from an angle, I went ahead replaced both the 6.3V 2200uf and one 25V 2200uf caps and now it booted up with both CC in. :)

    Just in case anyone in Dallas area looking for Tivo s3 replacement caps, try Tanner Electronics at Carrollton. They got some Nichicon and Rubycon cheaper than online.
     
  17. Apr 28, 2012 #57 of 223
    stile

    stile New Member

    6
    0
    Dec 28, 2006
    mpthompson: Thank you.

    I made the exact order as mpthompson stated. I only changed 4 capacitors as they obviously went bad but ordered all the capacitors just in case. only a few bucks...

    swapped out the capacitors, screwed everything back together, had my Tivo 3 up and running in 30 min.

    One thing I noticed. The solder on the board was pretty cold/hard. I started with my fine soldering iron (12 watt), didn't melt the solder. Went to another iron(15 watt), no luck. Switched to my last soldering iron (23 watts) and was successful.

    I was about to buy a new Tivo but you guys saved me a ton of money.


    Thanks again,

    Stile
     
  18. May 17, 2012 #58 of 223
    elmariachi

    elmariachi New Member

    5
    0
    Jul 30, 2009
    My DirecTV Hughes SD-DVR40 is stuck on the grey "Welcome. Powering Up.." screen. I checked the voltage of the power supply and got 10.70 dcv from the yellow wire and 5.20 dcv from the red wire. Would this be the cause of my problem or has the hard drive bitten the dust? Several of the capicitors on the PSU are bulging (rounded tops). I'd like to get several recorded shows off this dvr before I upgrade or switch services.

    Saw a couple of Tivos on Craigslist but wonder how much effort I should go to if the hard drive is fried.

    Thanks in advance for any help.:)
     
  19. May 17, 2012 #59 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    yellow is supposed to be 12.0 and red is supposed to be 5.0.

    It can be maybe 0.1 V higher or lower with no problems.

    There might be a little trimmer potentiometer on the power supply board to make voltage level adjustments with, but if you haven't already spotted it and figured that that was what it was, you don't know enough to mess with it.

    Above all, don't try to adjust the supply until and unless those bad caps are replaced, or you might let out the magic smoke.

    You can replace the caps (cheap) or the power supply (expensive)

    Check some local repair shops and see if they know how to replace low ESR capacitors in switching power supplies.

    If you're good with a soldering iron, see if they'll sell you replacements for the bad ones. Shouldn't be more than about $2 each.

    Or if you don't know which end of the soldering iron to hold see if they'll do the work for you for from $10 to $30.

    Right now you probably aren't getting enough "ooomph" to spin up the hard drive.

    You could maybe get a shop to do the replacement and then have them put it back in the TiVo, boot it up, and check to see if the voltage trim pot needs tweaking.

    Look for a shop with a good attitude.
     
  20. May 17, 2012 #60 of 223
    elmariachi

    elmariachi New Member

    5
    0
    Jul 30, 2009

    Thanks for the reply!!! I can pick-up a "working" unit in my area for about the same prices you quoted for parts and/or labor. I was thinking of just swapping out the PSU, getting what I need off the DVR, and then moving-on to an upgrade or switching services.

    I like what i've read about upgrading the hard drive, but the more I read the more confusing it gets. I'm sure it's pretty straight forward, but their doesn't seem to be one source that has a step-by-step outline for a n00b like me.
     

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