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Series 3 stuck in "Welcome! Powering up..." loop

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by mpthompson, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Dec 2, 2011 #21 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,390
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Actually, replacing all of the capacitors in the power supply shouldn't be necessary as it's probably only one or two on one of the output rails (the +5 volt seems to be the most likely).

    The trick is to educate yourself about how to spot the ones that have developed problems and leaked or bulged.

    Look at the picture steve614 posted in this thread

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=479176

    to see how subtle the difference in appearance can be, and go read the wikipedia article on "capacitor plague" and then check out badcaps.net

    Once you spot the ones gone bad, assuming one or more has, it's a matter of getting the right replacements, unsoldering the bad ones and soldering in the new ones, being careful to observe proper polarity.

    Run the manufacturer's diagnostic long test on your TiVo's hard drive and while you've got the TiVo opened (and unplugged!!!), examine the power supply capacitors.

    You can't be sure ahead of time if a problem is the power supply or the drive or what.
     
  2. Dec 9, 2011 #22 of 223
    mpthompson

    mpthompson New Member

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    Dec 30, 2006
    First, I verified that my hard drive was still working properly by connecting it to my PC and running the manufacturers diagnostics tools on the drive. After confirming the hard drive was functioning properly I turned my attention to the power supply. Measurements taken with a voltage meter indicated some of the power voltages were out of spec -- in my case, the 12 volt line that provides power to the hard drive.

    Examinging the power supply PCB I did spot about three capacitors that looked suspect. Their tops were bulging into a rounded shape, rather than being flat. However, I didn't want to hassle with other capacitors going out in the future. Therefore, I opted to replace all the capacitors. I examined each capacitor on the board and ordered an exact replacement from www.digikey.com. Some of the capacitors had a white glue on them, but that can be easily chipped away with an Xacto knife.

    Below is the order from DigiKey for my specific power supply:

    Qty Part # Description Price
    2 P12375-ND CAP ALUM 470UF 16V 20% RADIAL $1.02
    1 P12340-ND CAP ALUM 1000UF 6.3V 20% RADIAL $0.51
    2 P12344-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 6.3V 20% RADIAL $1.50
    4 P12735-ND CAP ALUM 3300UF 10V 20% RADIAL $4.24
    1 P12369-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 16V 20% RADIAL $1.06
    1 P12384-ND CAP ALUM 2200UF 25V 20% RADIAL $1.43
    1 P13462-ND CAP ALUM 2.2UF 50V 20% RADIAL $0.30
    1 P11212-ND CAP ALUM 10UF 25V 20% RADIAL $0.30
    1 P13464-ND CAP ALUM 47UF 50V 20% RADIAL $0.32
    1 P10108-ND CAP ALUM 470UF 200V 20% SNAP $2.54
    Total $13.22


    You certainly should double check the capacitors on your power supply before trusting my list as there might be variations due to different model numbers or when units of the same model number were manufactured.

    When I received the new capacitors I unsoldered each old one and immediately replaced it with a new capacitor -- double checking I got the values right and that the polarity was correct (the PCB is marked which makes this easy). Each new capacitor isn't exactly the same size as the old one, but the specs are the same and they all fit on the power supply fine. Also, I opted for slightly more expensive capacitors that had higher temperature ratings than cheaper ones so hopefully they'll last for more than just a few years.

    Once all the capacitors were replaced, I carefully examined the power supply PCB to make sure I didn't create and shorts and I then placed it into the Tivo. It powered up just fine and I was happy with myself for fixing my Tivo for less than $20 and a few hours of time.
     
  3. Jan 11, 2012 #23 of 223
    penny246

    penny246 New Member

    7
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    Jan 11, 2012
    So...having same start up loop problem. Took out HD. Tested it and it is fine. Examined power supply and capacitors and they all look perfectly normal. No leaking or swelling. What next?
     
  4. Jan 11, 2012 #24 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,390
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    What's the model number of your unit? (Starts with TCD, is on the sticker on the back)

    If you haven't already, look at the picture in this thread:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8895931

    and then ask yourself if your caps are really absolutely perfectly flat on top.

    How, specifically, did you test the hard drive?

    (I don't know you or exactly what you do and do not know, or if there's a glitch in your understanding of what you know. Not trying to be insulting, just trying to cover all the bases as we attempt long distance diagnosis)

    Do you happen to have a voltmeter?
     
  5. Jan 11, 2012 #25 of 223
    penny246

    penny246 New Member

    7
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    Jan 11, 2012
    Not insulting at all!

    I actually have a friend who owns a successful hardware/system building company because I know I have limited knowledge. I know he knows much more than I do. I am just trying to do any "leg work" I can as he is doing this as a favor. I will ask about the HD testing and voltmeter. I am sure he has a voltmeter but will ask to be sure.
     
  6. Jan 11, 2012 #26 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,390
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    When you say hardware/system building, do you mean computer, or computer-ish, hardware, as opposed to hammer and nails and bathroom tile grout?
     
  7. Jan 11, 2012 #27 of 223
    penny246

    penny246 New Member

    7
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    Jan 11, 2012
    LOL!! Yes computers! I like this response - gave me a vision of some guy with a plumber's crack standing over my TIVO with a big ol' sledge hammer. My Tivo is with him and he is the one who has done everything so far. I was afraid that I know just enough to really screw it up so asked for help.
     
  8. Jan 11, 2012 #28 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,390
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    What's the model number?

    Are you sure the caps are absolutely flat?

    How, exactly, did you test the drive?

    Cable cards? Tuning adapter?

    Using HDMI to connect to the television?

    To test the power supply with voltmeter, hook the black negative ground lead to the unit chassis, well away from where the AC cord plugs in, and probe the plug on the motherboard where the power supply plugs into it.

    Black wire=ground

    Orange should be +3.3V

    Red should be +5V

    Yellow should be +12V

    If you have the model with the wire (brown or gray or something like that) that goes to the front panel, it's supposed to be 8 or 9 volts I read somewhere, but if the power supply has problems it's almost certainly going to be on the 5V or 12V.

    Tell him to test with the hard drive not connected and again with it connected.
     
  9. Jan 14, 2012 #29 of 223
    FishTank1701

    FishTank1701 New Member

    63
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    Oct 26, 2004
    Central NJ
    This thread has been a lifesaver, for both my series 3 and myself. After confirming that my hard drive is ok, the volt meter test reveals that I'm getting only about 6.5v on the yellow 12v line.

    I suck at soldering, but the $99 replacement powersupply from weaknees is right up my alley.
     
  10. Jan 14, 2012 #30 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,390
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Well, somebody has to keep them in business so that they can keep sponsoring this site.

    But better you and your wallet than me and mine.:)

    Although I did buy a twinbreeze bracket for mom's S2 DT from them which is working just fine.
     
  11. Jan 18, 2012 #31 of 223
    gameboy2oo2

    gameboy2oo2 New Member

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    Jan 18, 2012
    Is it easy to do the powersupply fix by your experience?
     
  12. Jan 18, 2012 #32 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Have you ever used a soldering iron or soldering gun?
     
  13. Jan 18, 2012 #33 of 223
    gameboy2oo2

    gameboy2oo2 New Member

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    Jan 18, 2012
    Yes, I used a soldering gun before.
     
  14. Jan 18, 2012 #34 of 223
    Speed Daemon

    Speed Daemon New Member

    78
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    Jan 15, 2012
    A word of warning: soldering guns typically make a LOT more heat than a pencil-style soldering iron. That kind of heat can do a lot of damage to a printed circuit board in a short period of time. To paraphrase Elmer Fudd, be vewy vewy cawful!
     
  15. Jan 18, 2012 #35 of 223
    FishTank1701

    FishTank1701 New Member

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    Oct 26, 2004
    Central NJ
    I will keep you posted on the overall power supply replacement. The new one arrives from Weakness on Friday. It is just a few screws and connectors, so it should be trivial.
    My eyesight isn't what it used to be, so soldering new capacitors is too much trouble for me.
     
  16. Jan 19, 2012 #36 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Then once you've identified the caps that need replacing and obtained the correct replacements, it's fairly simple. You unsolder the bad ones, and, making sure to observe polarity (the caps have a negative lead and a positive lead and you take note of which went in which hole when you remove the bad ones, and put the new ones in the same way), solder in the new ones, and clip off the excess lead. If it or they are under where the heat sink overhangs, it might take a little ingenuity to get them in place, but it's do-able.

    When Wikipedia comes back online, read the article on capacitor plague, and then find the thread entitled "broken" in either the upgrade or help forum here at TCF for a very good picture of how subtle the difference in appearance can be between a good one and a bad one to help you find the bad one(s).

    Probably connected between either the +12V output and ground or the +5V output and ground.
     
  17. Jan 19, 2012 #37 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    The power supply PCB is fairly thick and simple, as these things go, the lands into which the capacitor leads go are fairly broad, and a gun instead of an iron would, by providing more heat, let you work a lot more quickly.

    If we were talking about the motherboard, it'd be a different story. Most everything there would need a small tip iron of about 25 to 30 Watts.

    And a magnifying glass.:D
     
  18. Jan 21, 2012 #38 of 223
    FishTank1701

    FishTank1701 New Member

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    Oct 26, 2004
    Central NJ
    Just a follow-up as promised. UPS Delivered the powersupply around 2:30 PM yesterday afternoon. My Tivo was up and running well before 3, and the old powersupply was on its way back to Weakness for a $50 credit by 4. Sure, if I had better eyes and a steadier hand, I'd have saved a few bucks replacing just the bloated capacitors, but replacing the whole supply a piece of cake, and well worth the price.
     
  19. Jan 21, 2012 #39 of 223
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Well, somebody has to keep Weaknees in business so they can keep sponsoring this site.

    The perfect solution is the one that works for you.
     
  20. Jan 23, 2012 #40 of 223
    penny246

    penny246 New Member

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    Jan 11, 2012
    "Sorry for my delay in response but they were busy fulfilling a large machine request from AMD

    I'm certain the HD itself is good. We took it out and attached it to our PC HD test station and ran the manufacture drive test and a full media scan/verify.

    The power supply seems to be functioning OK. All the voltages measure correctly under load. There are two caps that are just starting to get a slight bulge, but I'm doubtful that they're "bad" yet."

    I guess I will look into a replacement power supply. Oh it is a first gen. TIVO 3 HD with two cable cards.
     

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