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Series 3 HD stuck in "Powering Up..."

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by BOMOON, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    Q: when you installed the new drive, where'd you get the OS and TiVo application software?
     
  2. dwit

    dwit Active Member

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    May 4, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    Weaknees.com

    Plug-n-play Tivo drives. Expect to pay about twice the cost of doing it yourself. Worth it for some. There used to be sources that were a little cheaper. Don't know if they are still around.
     
  3. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    There's nothing like that on the WD website that I could find. When I did a search on the part number, WD2500BS, I got nothing at all at first. Then I re-did the search in the "Legacy Products" section. The resulting page was here:

    http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?modelno=WD2500bs&x=0&y=0

    This page has Windows and DOS clients available for download. There is no ISO file for burning to a bootable drive.

    According to the instructions, the Windows version is an MSI file that "tests your drives" - doesn't say which ones, external or internal. Aside from that, I still have to work out a way to connect this drive to my PC. I don't have an external power supply setup for it so I'll probably have to use the PS in the TiVo. Then I'll have to see if I can dig up (or buy) a SATA/USB adapter.

    Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.
     
  4. dwit

    dwit Active Member

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    May 4, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    You want the "Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS" option.

    That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.

    Just do it. It's easy and it works(the bootable cd. No firsthand experience with a flash drive). All drive manufacturers have these utilities, and most anyone here giving advice has used them numerous times to test their drives.
     
  5. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    That looks pretty good. Actually $150.00 for a plug-n-play 1TB drive isn't so bad. If I have to go that route to replace a bad drive and get the TiVo OS and software all in one swipe, I'll do it.

    Looks like I'll have to cannibalize one of my PCs with internal SATA2 ports to test the stock drive. The drive is connected in the TiVo with a combo power/SATA2 plug, so I can't use the PS there and plug the SATA port into another PC. Right now the PC I need to use is rendering a Blu-Ray and won't be available for a few hours. When it's done I'll open it up, remove the non-OS SATA2 drive, plug in the TiVo drive and PS plug, and run the WD Diagnostics client.

    Only trouble is... as I reported to Arcady, there's no bootable ISO image with diagnostics software for this drive on the WD website. That means I'll be running WD's Windows client to diagnose a non-Windows HD. Don't see how that can work, even if I reformat the drive - wrong file system.
     
  6. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    OK, got it. Thanks for the pointer - wasn't obvious on the WD website where the bootable ISO image was.
     
  7. WO312

    WO312 Active Member

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    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    The other source is DVR Dude.

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/dvr_dude/m.html
     
  8. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
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    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
  9. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    Actually, the download doesn't "enable you to make a bootable cd". It includes an EXE file with the instructions to "copy the program to a bootable cd". There's no tool for creating that bootable CD, and there's no built-in tool in Windows 7 to accomplish that (format/make MS-DOS boot Disc only works for floppies - no such option for CDs).

    I found a lot of downloadable ISO files to create bootable DOS CDs for Windows 7, but they all finalized the CD after I burned the image - even when I told my burning software not to finalize the CD. Using a CD-RW made no difference. Thus I was never able to copy that executable to a bootable CD.

    See steve614's post and my response. The best solution is an ISO that already includes the WD diagnostics. There's nothing like that for this drive on the WD website.
     
  10. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    THANK YOU Steve614. This has resolved the quagmire I've been dealing with when it comes to making a bootable CD in Windows 7 and subsequently copying the DOS version of the WD Diagnostics to the CD. There's no easy way to do it. The solution is an integrated ISO file like this one.

    Plus, it's loaded with HDD utilities for other drive brands, as well as additional utilities for system maintenance that I haven't explored yet. However I did manage to boot the PC from the CD and run the included WD diagnostics program. I don't have the TiVo drive connected to my PC yet but I do have an internal WD HDD that the diagnostic recognized.

    NOW I have something I can work with.
     
  11. dwit

    dwit Active Member

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    May 4, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.

    Been so long since I've done it.
     
  12. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    2,777
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    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    The drive diagnostic tools are testing at the hardware level and not the file system level so it doesn't care what file system is on the drive.

    Scott
     
  13. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    Don't I know it. I wasn't being nitty about your posts (sorry if I came across that way), just doing some immature whining about all the crap I ran into when I tried to make this work somehow.

    Hey - when you're 60+, a little immaturity now and then is actually a treasured experience.

    Back on topic, you might want to check out that link provided by Steve614. That ISO download has a lot of great things besides the WD diagnostics. A number of other hard drive models are supported with utility software, and there are many other options besides HDD maintenance that I haven't even explored yet.

    Plus for a DOS program it has a pretty good user interface. I think it's well worth having if you have a Windows OS PC that can boot off a CD drive.

    Here's a copy of it:

    http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

    BTW I usually burn my disc images - CD (MP3, CDA, data), DVD, Blu-Ray with the freeware Ashampoo burner. I've never had a problem with it. A solid burner utlity:

    http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

    Have a good one,
     
  14. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

    87
    0
    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    Hello Everyone who's been following this thread,

    I've had mixed success with the WD Diagnostics, at least as far as I can tell from the test results.

    I figured I probably should commit an internet faux pas and cross-post a message in the UltimateBootCD forum just in case someone here has had experience with the WD diagnostics and knows how to interpret the results. Here's the post, followed by a link to the UltimateBootCD forum:
    **********************************************
    Hello,
    I'm using Ultimate Boot 5.2.5 for the first time. I'm trying to run the HDD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic Extended Test For DOS 5.20 (Western Digital) on a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR hard drive, model number WD2500BS 250GB. Currently it's connected to a Dell Dimension 8400 which boots from the UltimateBootCD.

    What happens is that the Quick Test portion of the Extended Test will run. After that, instead of running the Full Media Scan, I get a message saying that I have to restart the system. When I do this, it's back to square one. No media scan is done and I have to try to start the extended test all over again.

    Here's the exact sequence of messages at the end of the Quick Test:

    "Warning! One or more current or worst-case attributes are below threshold"

    "Hit ANY Key to continue"

    (Key typed)

    "The System Must be Reset - Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL or Turn the Power Off"

    The wording of the first message suggests that test results lower than the threshold values indicate failure. However, things like Raw Read Error Rate are above the threshold value. Is this a pass or a fail? Seems like a high Raw Read Error Rate would be a failure, rather than a pass because it's not "below threshold."

    In fact the only test that results in a "below threshold" value is the Seek Error Test. The rest of the results are all much higher than the listed Thresholds.

    Here are the detailed results of the Quick Test (breaks in ID sequence are as reported here):

    ID Name Value Thresh Worst

    1. Raw Read Error Rate 200 51 200
    3. Spin Up Time 193 21 193
    4. Start/Stop Count 180 0 180
    5. Re-allocated sector count 176 148 176
    7. Seek Error Rate 1 51 1
    9, Power-On Hours Count 34 0 34
    10. Spin Retry Count 100 51 253
    11. Drive Calibration Retry Count 100 51 253
    12. Drive Power Cycle Count 100 8 100
    190. Airflow Temperature 56 45 50
    194. HDA Temperature 107 0 180
    196. Re-Allocated Sector Event 99 0 99
    197. Current Pending Sector Count 200 0 200
    198. Offline Uncorrectable Sector Count 200 0 200
    199. UltraDMA CRC Error Rate 200 0 200
    200. Mutli Zone Error Rate 200 51 200

    So is the Extended Test not running because of these results? Anyone have any ideas?

    **********************************************

    http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14683&sid=183f4d74e8203c52587fc1a01543ce66

    Thanks for your time,
     
  15. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    Aug 19, 2003
    New Jersey, USA
    Just get a new drive.
     
  16. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    BOMOON--

    The UBCD has something on there called PartedMagic.

    It loads a GUI-type desktop.

    It has a thing to click on that says disk health or something like that.

    It'll show whatever hard drives are connected.

    Then you can click the icon for your TiVo drive and click "details" and get some info that way.

    But if the WD software can't get any further than that, it's time to replace the drive.
     
  17. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.

    At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.

    Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.
     
  18. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

    87
    0
    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a problem with the WD software. It's too bad that the quick test results have that ambiguous "below threshold" message.

    I'm still not sure the drive is actually bad, but I've decided after all this time to shop the recommended vendors for a plug and play TiVo drive. Checking out the old drive is being relegated to a background task.

    Thanks to all for your help and the great links !!!
     
  19. WO312

    WO312 Active Member

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    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    My understanding is that Tivo does not save recordings on individual drives. They are striped across both drives.

    At this point I would just keep both drives as-is and see what people say about recovering anything. I have recovered single drives using dd_rescue, but I'm not sure what the procedure is for an internal and external, if there is one.
     
  20. BOMOON

    BOMOON Negative Futurist

    87
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    Dec 11, 2004
    Southern NH
    These excerpts from the TiVo forum FAQ suggest that upgrading the internal drive with one of the Weaknees or DVRDude plug & play drives will trash the expander eSATA interface, thus also trashing the content on the expander drive.

    As WO312 has suggested, this may be a moot point. If the recordings really are "striped" across the two drives, upgrading the internal HDD would make the content on the expander drive unreadable.

    More research.... sigh. I thought those Weaknees and DVDRDude drives might be a good option, but if they disable support for the eSATA expansion port, I may have to re-think my options.

    Here are the FAQ excerpts from http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784&highlight=SATA

    6. Can I add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded the hard drive in my TiVo?

    The new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work if you upgrade the built-in drive on the TiVoHD and Series3.

    You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can also be found in Section IV, #10.


    7. Can I add an eSATA drive to upgraded TiVos purchased from Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and other third parties?

    As per the previous FAQ, the new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work on any upgraded TiVo. That includes all upgraded TiVos sold by Weaknees and DVRUpgrade. It does not matter who does the upgrade.

    You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can be found in Section IV, #10 of this FAQ.


    8. I already have a My DVR Expander connected. Can I upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?

    No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.

    You can transfer unprotected recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.

    Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.
     

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