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Series 3 freezing and reboots

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by jon96cobra, Apr 12, 2014.

  1. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014
    I have a tool kit that has the bits I need for taking out what I need.
    I know what you're thinking: what gal has a tool kit?:cool:
    I'm familiar with wood work, not electricity so I just need to know the type of soldering iron you mentioned look like and the type of materials to get.

    I ended up getting those capacitors from the link I was given but I got it from a TV repair supplier off of eBay. I purchased a total of 23 capacitors that cost me $17.41 with no taxes and free S&H. Some of these were cheaper on digikey but the taxes and S&H would've been more so I hope I got a good deal.

    I most definitely will have to show my brother in law the kind of soldering iron you mentioned b/c saying what you mentioned will come out in Japanese form.

    A member by the name of Squint PM'd me and I can't answer their PM b/c I'm still a newbie.
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    When I answer questions here, a lot of the time the answer is aimed at future searchers as well.

    If your BIL has a soldering iron (often referred to as a pencil soldering iron because of the way it's held) rated to draw 30 Watts or more, that'll probably do the job.

    A soldering gun, which is a type of soldering iron with a pistol style grip and a trigger-type switch, is likely to be rated at 40 Watts or higher.

    If he has a somewhat lower powered soldering iron, it might not be heavy-duty enough to melt the old solder on the negative leads of the capacitors which all connect to the ground plane, which means a big area of copper which will dissipate heat applied to it fairly quickly, so it takes a lot to pump it in faster than it spreads it out.

    If this is the case, Radio Shack, few of whose products I recommend, has a thing that looks like a soldering iron with a squeeze bulb attached which is called a de-soldering iron, and the price isn't too bad.

    It can also generate enough heat to heat up the cap lead and the copper around the hole through which it sticks to get them hot enough to melt new solder to mechanically and electrically bond them together, so you can use it for both phases of the job, and if he does much soldering, he'll get more use out of it down the road.


    What gal has a tool kit? The interesting kind.
     
  3. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    6,995
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    Jul 6, 2006
    Near...
    If the caps you got via eBay are not the specific part numbers in the list, the question arises whether they are low ESR and 105C temp rated. If not you're wasting your time and money installing them.
     
  4. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014
    You just killed my joy in buying my first electrical item to repair an electrical item:p

    I completely forgot about the low ESR. It never stated if it was. I just cut & pasted(yeah I don't know if that's a word or not) what was on this thread to the eBay's website and came up with what I came up with. I got no one to blame but myself for not checking.

    Just out of curiosity would it say low ESR on the capacitor itself?
     
  5. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014
    ---->That's me. :D
     
  6. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    6,995
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    Jul 6, 2006
    Near...
    I doubt you can count on the caps being labeled either as low ESR or their temp rating. You would either have to get the exact part number that was in one of the lists or the cap would have to be spec'ed that way in the catalog.

    Unitron, do you know?
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If she can post the brand and that brand's part number for the various caps, I can use the old Google machine to find out.

    A link to the eBay listing would also help.

    And what city she's in or near might let me know if she's near anybody that can be of help.
     
  8. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014
    There was a thread where a poster posted the capacitors. I just copied and pasted the info from there to eBay. I did the same for Digikey and that's how I got the capacitors. Here's what I ordered:

    2200uF 6.3V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 3
    3300uF 10V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
    2200uF 25V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
    470uF 16V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor----I ordered 5
    1000uF 6.3V 105°C Electrolytic Capacitor---I ordered 5

    Please tell me these are right...pretty pretty please!

    My brother-in-law does have the solder iron with the rosin core thingie.....My electrical terminology is amazing isn't it?

    I do need a pic that will tell me which capacitors to replace. I don't remember seeing one. I know there's other pics on the net but none says 'here's the capacitors you need to replace'. That would be awesome.
     
  9. jon96cobra

    jon96cobra Member

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    May 24, 2006
    Northern VA
  10. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    No doubt. The best approach is to replace every cap except the huge one (The large-size, high-voltage, one which can be hard to find, and rarely fails).
     
  11. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Okay, to save me taking my S3 apart, here's HerronScott's list

    C401 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81 (Alternate: P15308CT-ND?)
    C402 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81 (Alternate: P15308CT-ND?)

    C601 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 Digikey P14402-ND $1.01
    C701 2200uF 25V Panasonic EEU-FR1E222L Digikey P14428-ND $1.43
    C501 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
    C502 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
    C503 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01

    C50? 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
    C603 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49 (Alternate: P15342CT-ND?)
    C702 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49 (Alternate: P15342CT-ND?)
    C403 1000uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FM0J102 Digikey P12340-ND $0.51


    Which works out to

    2 2200uF at 6.3V, leaving you with one spare

    1 2200uF at 16V and 1 2200uF at 25V, you can get away with using a 25V 2200uF for the 16V one (you can go up in voltage a little bit, but never down), so that leaves you 3 spares.

    4 3300uF at 10V, so that leaves you one spare

    2 470uF at 16V, so you've got 3 spare

    and 1 1000uF at 6.3V, so you've got 4 spares on that

    so I'd say you're covered.

    Since the ones you're getting are rated for 105 degrees, they're probably low ESR. Almost any application that needs caps that can handle more than the usual 85 degree rating of general purpose replacement caps is going to need them to be low ESR, so making them low ESR is probably how they achieve the high temp rating.

    Maybe someone will make you an offer on your leftovers.

    If you've managed to get the cover off of the TiVo already to eyeball the power supply caps and spot the bulging ones, I don't need to explain how snugly it fits and how you might have to use a small pry bar on the back, and also you know which is your #10 Torx bit, cause that's the one you used on the screws that hold the cover.

    Put those screws in a little aspirin bottle or similar to keep them corralled.

    Use that same Torx bit on the 6 or 8 screws that hold the power supply circuit board down to the chassis, put them in a different bottle, and then use a slightly smaller #8 or #9 Torx bit to take out the small, dark screw that goes in from the outside just above where the power cord plugs in and put it in the same bottle.

    There are a bunch of different color wires that come off of the power supply, most of which go to a plug that plugs onto the motherboard. There's a lever thing on the side of the plug--squeeze that so that it unlatches from the socket, and then rock it just a little side to side and work the plug out of the socket.

    The rest of the wires, 2 black, one red, one yellow, go over to the hard drive where they become part of a plug that also has the SATA data cable coming out of it. Disconnect the other end of that data cable from where it plugs onto the motherboard--there might be a latch thing you have to squeeze--then work that combo plug off of the back of the hard drive.

    At that point you should be able to remove the power supply board.

    HerronScott's list includes the numbers silkscreened onto the power supply board next to where the caps mount so that once you unsolder and remove a cap you'll be able to see the number if you couldn't already.

    The white stuff that looks like marshmallow creme stuck to the side of some of the caps is just a kind of glue to hold them in place at the factory while they're getting soldered, and is no longer needed--you can bust it off with pliers or diagonal cutters.

    Where the caps mount there's a circle silkscreened on the board and half of that circle is has hatch lines. That's the side with the hole where the negative lead of the new capacitor goes.

    I don't know if the caps you get will have a row of + marks down one side to indicate the positive lead, or if it'll have a stripe with a bunch of - marks to indicate the negative lead, but an electrolytic capacitor with two leads has one positive lead and one negative lead and you have to be sure to connect the right one in the right place.


    Replace them one at a time, make sketches of location and notes of which ones you've done.

    That one where HerronScott wasn't sure about the C number on the board, you'll figure it out by process of elimination.

    Once you get a new cap soldered in, you'll need to clip off the extra lead length sticking up (or down when it turned right side up) so they don't short against anything.

    If your BIL has a soldering iron, he's probably got wire strippers that'll do it, or wire cutters or something.


    And there's a white ribbon cable that comes from the front panel display and plugs into a socket near the front of the motherboard.

    Take care not to bump into it and dislodge it even slightly from the socket, and be sure it's seated fully and squarely into that socket.
     
  12. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014

    Yeah, thanks, Jon but that doesn't help. I'm so sorry. If I need to replace all of the capacitors except the big one then I need to see all of them. I've been trying to find good pics but I can't.
    This is a delicate situation for me. I've NEVER tried to repair anything inside of an electrical unit before so I need to be hand held on this one. It's already tanked but I don't want to make it worse than what it already is.
    To make it easier for myself I'll just replace the three caps that's bulging and see how it goes from there.
     
  13. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
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    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    I found a picture of the 648 power supply...but it was small. Blowing it up only allows you to see the relative locations of the caps. It may be helpful in that you can point to which of your caps are bulging.
    There may be a capacitor or two hiding under that black heat sink on the right.

    [​IMG]

    Ideally, you need to replace ALL the capacitors on the output section of the power supply (circled in yellow), because there is no way to tell if the bad caps affected any of the good caps. It's possible that the good capacitors on the supply may have been weakened by having to take up the slack from the failing capacitors.

    If you only replace two or three, you are taking the chance that you will have to repeat the process sooner, rather than later.
    It won't take that much more time to go ahead and replace all of them.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014
    I have three bulging capacitors C701 C401 and the one next to it which is bulging with a leak. I believe that's under that black thing you called a heat sink?

    I'm waiting for my caps to arrive. I have my work cut out for me yet.

    Unitron gave me instructions on how to get the power supply loose. I'm reading this over and over and when I get off of work I will be reading and looking over what I need to do that way when my brother-in-law comes we'll be ready. Or at least he'll be ready b/c I'm gonna be crouching in a corner somewhere.
     
  15. teasip

    teasip Member

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    Aug 24, 2002
    Sorry to jump in but I was curious if there is a parts list for the 652 capacitors or do they use the same ones? I have two with lifetime and mine is running fine at present and I'm not aware of my daughter having issues with hers. I thought there was going to be a sticky, or was a sticky with the parts list?
     
  16. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    6,995
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    Jul 6, 2006
    Near...
    Here ya go:
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9964473#post9964473
    Note there are two possible PSU's for this and you need to determine which one you have.
     
  17. teasip

    teasip Member

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    Aug 24, 2002
    I appreciate the link. Thank you very much. I now have it filed away.
     
  18. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I still have two working & retired TCD652160 TiVo HDs, with already professionally-rebuilt (re-capped), and fully-tested, power supplies.

    Without lifetime service, they aren't worth anything but for parts.

    I don't like being an @zzhat, posting them as for sale. But, I sometimes do in the power supply threads. They are both already in the buyer/seller threads.

    It's much cheaper to ship just the power supply, than the whole thing, and I'm open to offers. Shoot me a PM, if interested.

    Sometimes people are better-off going this route. Especially if they've never done such repairs, or never operated a soldering iron.

    Otherwise, I wish you the best of luck (to anybody). It's easy-peasy, if you do this sort of work as a living, or have done it as an enthusiast.
     
  19. D_vadout

    D_vadout New Member

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    Apr 14, 2014
    Yeah with me having Time Warner Cable and having to get cable cards just to get the digital & HD channels to come out I realized getting a Tivo wasn't such a good idea.
    I had put in a 'make the best offer' on eBay and wouldn't have thought the seller was going to accept my offer. I wasn't too pleased about it so now that I have this thing I might as well use it but I haven't been able to use it since January. I won it a few months prior but never really got into it b/c it does everything my cable box does.
    As mentioned before I want to see if I can repair this thing. If I can and it doesn't blow up then I'll consider myself the queen of the world! Or at least a good DIY-er.
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    You aren't a real DIY-er until you've accidentally burned yourself a time or two with a hot soldering iron and hit your thumb at least once with a hammer in addition to whatever minor cuts and scrapes and bruises you acquire along the way.

    :D
     

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