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SDV solution for S3, TiVo HD

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by 20TIL6, Aug 25, 2007.

  1. Aug 27, 2007 #61 of 163
    JJ

    JJ TiVoPlantation Owner

    357
    0
    Jul 14, 2000
    Land of...
    18months
    a nice round number that puts it a few months behind analogue/digital conversion, cable is always playing catch up anyway...
     
  2. Aug 27, 2007 #62 of 163
    CharlesH

    CharlesH Member

    1,061
    1
    Aug 29, 2002
    Sacramento...
    Ummm.. I don't have a cable modem. I have a DSL modem. So any Internet connection would be out through the wild Internet.

    Am I the only S3 user getting their broadband through DSL? So many of these posts begin with "use the TiVo ethernet connection to your cable modem" that I am wondering if I am in the miniscule minority.
     
  3. Aug 27, 2007 #63 of 163
    jrm01

    jrm01 New Member

    2,619
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    Oct 17, 2003
    Pittsburgh
    1st quarter 2008.
     
  4. Aug 27, 2007 #64 of 163
    nathanziarek

    nathanziarek New Member

    105
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    Sep 1, 2006
    I'll go with that JJ...

    Depending on how many channels I am missing out on due to SDV in the next few months (already can't get ESPN2HD as college basketball is about to heat up), 18 months is way too long. I don't mind paying for the enhanced user experience of TiVo, but in the end, I can learn another way and TiVo loses. They've got a rough deal, that's for sure.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2007 #65 of 163
    nathanziarek

    nathanziarek New Member

    105
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    Sep 1, 2006
    Whoa. Your glass overfloweth.
     
  6. Aug 27, 2007 #66 of 163
    myosh_tino

    myosh_tino New Member

    58
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    Dec 7, 2004
    Cupertino, CA
    You don't need to be a cable modem subscriber because the cable systems are inherently 2-way. The two-way commuication hardware for VOD, PPV, etc is built-in to the digital set-top boxes. I suspect any dongle to enable two-way communication would use the existing cable infrastructure. In otherwords, connect the dongle to your coax and away you go.
     
  7. Aug 28, 2007 #67 of 163
    mbarcus

    mbarcus New Member

    13
    0
    Sep 12, 2006

    Dolfer,

    I also received the new channel lineup/announcement in the mail (I am in Cincinnati as well). Take a closer look at the announcement...there is an asterisk by ESPN2HD....says that it is NOT available to cablecard customers!!
     
  8. Aug 28, 2007 #68 of 163
    cramer

    cramer New Member

    430
    0
    Aug 14, 2000
    Raleigh,...
    I haven't laughed that hard all month. Have you seen the cluster f*** they've made out of cablecard installs? What in God's green earth makes you think they won't royally screw up that DOCSIS modem integration as well? The people selling you TV aren't the people selling you internet access. The internet side of the house knows what they're doing because they've been doing it for a decade, and their business depends on it. The TV side of the house cannot accurately plug in a card and key in two numbers; the cablemodem MAC is just one more number for them to screw up.

    It's always been technically possible. However, it's a violation of the CableLabs license -- it'd have to inside the case and then the whole device would count as bi-directional; round and round we go. I've always wondered why Tivo, Inc. didn't designed the S3's with an RF modulator, even if they never were allowed to use the transmitter.

    An IP backchannel is simply too unstable to be worth the effort. There are lots of people who have cable TV but don't have (cable) broadband. I have a cablemodem, but it's not run by TW -- my channel change request would travel half way across the country to reach the headend a few miles away. An IP backchannel would necessitate an even more expensive broadband connection just to tune cable TV. And "internet channel changing" would be about as annoying as an IR blaster. No thanks.

    Either do away with SDV -- I'm still unconvinced as to it's need -- or fix it properly with a native SDV client and direct OOB cable upstream channel.

    Actually, you'll run into everyday -- maybe more than once a day -- in the form of no live buffer. You'll walk in, turn on the TV and *poof* have no live buffer. That's a) f'ing annoying, and b) completely counter to what Tivo does. If the tivo is in "standby", then I can forgive the lack of a live buffer. But honestly, how many people actually put their tivo to sleep? (Tivo, Inc. can easily answer that, btw.)
     
  9. Aug 28, 2007 #69 of 163
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

    2,119
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    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    Competition is a beautiful thing :)
     
  10. Aug 28, 2007 #70 of 163
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

    2,119
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    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    The problem I see with this solution is that it leaves DSL and dial-up users without a solution.

    Edit: Someone else addressed this before I did :eek:
     
  11. Aug 28, 2007 #71 of 163
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,382
    43
    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    That's silly. :rolleyes:

    That's true of most commercial enterprises.

    That's just another silly throwaway assertion.

    Since you know the secret, you could make a mint offering it. :rolleyes:

    FIOS refuses to offer service to the less affluent neighborhoods in our town. Nice company. :thumbsdown:
     
  12. Aug 28, 2007 #72 of 163
    SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    8,628
    11
    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    AND FIOS will not be available to a vast majority of the country. I don't think Comcast has much to fear from Uverse around here.
     
  13. Aug 28, 2007 #73 of 163
    nathanziarek

    nathanziarek New Member

    105
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    Sep 1, 2006
    I don't use the buffer like that, but I never took it to be guarantee either, I guess. I mean, accidentally hitting the channel button will eliminate it immediately, so I've never come to rely on it...and I'd much rather have more HD.
     
  14. Aug 28, 2007 #74 of 163
    pmiranda

    pmiranda New Member

    669
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    Feb 12, 2003
    Austin, TX
    Yep, far easier for them to use a $2 transmitter and a $2 microcontroller in the dongle that use the existing cablecard MAC assignment than to try and make it work with an external cablemodem or any random internet connection.

    Technically the dongle is a violation of the CableLabs license, but if the cablecos are willing to look the other way I'm good with it :)

    I think walking in and watching whatever happens to be on is completely counter to what TiVo does. 90% of the time when I walk in and turn on the TV, it's on a channel that TiVo was recording something on, but almost never something I actually want to watch. Unless you disable TiVo suggestions (again, counter to what TiVo does) and only record off a limited set of channels, you can't expect the TV to be tuned to something you want to watch.

    Note that this is a fundamental property of SDV to not transmit channels you're not watching. When I had a cableco DVR, it would turn itself off all the time, even before SDV.
     
  15. Aug 28, 2007 #75 of 163
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

    1,347
    8
    May 15, 2002
    They can't use a cable modem solution. You mean to get SDV you also have to use their high-speed Internet service at $45/month? Where are all the usual whiners screaming "MONOPOLY"?

    This solution is extremely hackable. I'm surprised the cable companies are allowing it. I'd force Tivo to update the S3 to hardwire the module inside the Tivo. Making the connection using the easily-accessible USB is just begging someone to hack it.
     
  16. Aug 28, 2007 #76 of 163
    pmiranda

    pmiranda New Member

    669
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    Feb 12, 2003
    Austin, TX
    We're agreeing that a cable modem is not a good solution. I'm saying they stick the transmit modulator that should have been in the S3 box to begin with in a dongle with a simple microcontroller for the USB interface. There's nothing going out on the USB that you couldn't observe by putting a hacked cablemodem on the cable, so there's no real extra risk of hacking. Any information going out that needs to be protected/authenticated would be using an end-to-end encryption originating at the cablecard and terminated at the hub/headend.
     
  17. Aug 28, 2007 #77 of 163
    SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    8,628
    11
    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    You assume that you would have to have their high speed internet service to make use of the modem. AFAIK there would be nothing preventing them from using the adapter in a limited fashion only for SDV.
     
  18. Aug 28, 2007 #78 of 163
    Revolutionary

    Revolutionary Too sleepy for TV...

    575
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    Dec 1, 2004
    Virginia
    Read the FCC filing.

    1. The dongle technology will be licensed by NCTA under existing agreements, so it doesn't violate anything; this should also speed development.

    2. The second footnote (69) says that the UDCP will send a "transmit channel" signal when it is ready to tune, and the head-end will send a "are you still watching this channel" message (or equivalent) when there has been no user interaction on the other end. The Tivo will just automatically send a request when it is time to record from a switched channel (suggestions or scheduled recordings). Any subsequent "keep alive" activity (such as a duplicate "transmit channel" request, or maybe even a programmed navigate away/navigate back behavior, would suffice to keep the transmission going for a subsequent recording on the same channel. At worst you would turn on your TV to find Tivo sitting on a blank channel because it recorded from a switched channel and then failed to (ie, didn't need to) keep the transmission alive.
     
  19. Aug 28, 2007 #79 of 163
    vstone

    vstone New Member

    1,235
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    May 11, 2002
    Martinsville...
    If the sytem is designed right (ie they don't try to pinch too many pennies), there will be enough channels for all of the receivers in the technically defined digital neighborhood to be on at the same time. For this to work, the number of receivers much include all types of devices (TV sets (those with cablecards and the ability to 'talk' with the cable SDV controllers, or future equivalents), cable boxes, Tivos, etc. that can have a 'conversation' with the cable plant SDV controllers.) Of course, they will try to pinch pennies. :D
     
  20. Aug 28, 2007 #80 of 163
    vstone

    vstone New Member

    1,235
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    May 11, 2002
    Martinsville...
    If designed properly the signal level of incoming signals wouldn't be goed significantly affected, only the frequency(s?) of the docsis upsteam signals would see much change. This assumes no penny pinching.
     

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