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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. calaban9

    calaban9 New Member

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    I posted this in the cablevision thread but thought i'd repeat it here (if a mod wants to delete the dup please do so):


    Ok doing a little research i found the following (some of this has been posted on this and other forums). I'm putting 2ish and 2ish together to get 4ish. If anyone sees some fault to my logic please let me know.

    Cisco and Motorola have submitted their SDV boxes, and Tivo had submmitted their software changes (usb control of said boxes) to Cablelabs for certification http://gizmodo.com/391871/tivo-switched-video-tuning-adapters-appear-at-cablelabs.

    This article is from May 18th.

    Cablelabs runs their certification through "waves". Taking a look at their certification schedule we can infer:

    The submission could have (unlikely) made the April 21 - 23 slot for submissions which would mean board certification on June 24 - 26.

    Much more likely they made the CW61 Wave with submission due by June 12th...

    Therefore we may expect to see the boxes sometime after the Aug 14th Board meeting. How long for cable carriers to distribute is anyone's guess.
     
  2. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    San Diego,...
    The increase from 750 to 870 in and of itself represents bandwidth in which they can transmit another 40 HD broadcast services at a full 19+ Mbps, should they choose to use all of it that way. (Not nearly every available HD service comes from its provider at anything close to a full 19+ Mbps--I recently spot-checked Universal HD on TWC SD and was surprised to find it to be apparently variable-rate from about 7-10 Mbps and it looks incredibly good). There must be services that they provide now which they're free to move off the lower 870 and into that upper 130 (business high-speed internet and telephone, perhaps, where they can replace the equipment at a couple thousand subscriber sites fairly quickly and inexpensively).

    I'm certainly not saying that they'll be able to hold off going to SDV forever, just longer than the other providers who haven't upgraded to 1GHz.
     
  3. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    CableLabs held an interop at the beginning of April to which both TA vendors and TiVo brought protos. Both Motorola and SA claimed to have come through that interop well and to be submitting units into Cert Wave 60 as well as to cable service providers for internal testing (links to articles about these things are in old posts from mid-April-to-mid-May). It doesn't much matter, since in any case everyone will be missing the original by-end-of-calendar-Q2 estimate, which was, in their defense, an extremely long range estimate, particularly given that it was an estimate of a cooperative effort between three equipment vendors, a bunch of cable service providers and CableLabs. I don't care, so long as my cable provider doesn't roll out SDV services much before they're ready to make a TA available.
     
  4. calaban9

    calaban9 New Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Thanks for the info.. i searched but couldn't find that post. Cablevision , Westchester N.Y. made the switch a week ago which i s why I have a vested interset in the details.
     
  5. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    San Diego,...
    What kind of equipment is Cablevision using in your area? Cisco/Scientific-Atlanta or Motorola?

    I won't track down all of the info for you (and we discussed all these PRs ad nauseam earlier in this thread), but the first mention of Cisco/SA's Tuning Adapter was here at lightreading.com on April 25th:
    Just google "tuning-adapter wave-60" or various other keyword combos.
     
  6. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    It doesn't make it wrong, either.

    First of all, they have added many SD as well as HD channels. With the exception of KMYST (Which is a local broadcast channel), all of them, whatever their bandwidth, are SDV. Most of the HD channels are much more rarely watched than the SD channels. Far less than 20% of the 300,000 plus subs in San Antonio have HDTVs, and even fewer have only HDTVs. (I myself have one plain old 25" NTSC monitor and two plain old 19" TVs in addition to the 2 HD sets I own.)

    Stipulating for the moment that there is something "wrong" with excluding any subset of subscribers from content freely available to all other subscribers, how would it have been "better" to actually take away large numbers of channels from 240,000 subs so that 60,000 subs can get programming they never had before? Isn't it "better" to take nothing from any subscriber while only blocking 60,000 of their total 300,000 customers from being able to receive certain new channels? Even those 60,000 are still paying the same amount for the same number of channels they received previously, and no one has their bill increased or their channels decreased. Certainly it is not absolutely perfect, but given the technical and economic constraints and putting aside my personal desires, this seems to me about as fair as it can get for the time being.

    Of course the fact is it isn't "wrong" to provide a lower level of service to certain subs if there are solid technical reasons for doing so. In particular, delivering a slightly lower class of service to customers (like S3 owners) who pay the company less for the service is perfectly ethical, provided the concomittant restriction in service is not out of proportion to the reduction in revenue. (Note: the statement is a bit over-simplistic when applied to the real situation, but the principle stands in general.) The only thing which would approach being unethical is to extract exhorbitant fees from customers who have no choice but to be customers. The power company, for examnple, to all intents and purposes is a monopoly in most municipalities and in practical terms the electricity user very nearly has no choice whatsoever but to be a subscriber. Most people do not have the luxury of not using utility power at all. A CATV subscriber can always forgo CATV altogether, and indeed something close to 40% of all households do just that.
     
  7. vstone

    vstone New Member

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    Martinsville...
    Some of the cable HD nets run 720p. not 1080i.
     
  8. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    Switched Digital Video (SDV) apparently is already deployed in Cox Orange County and from what I can tell from my CableCard Tivos, at least the following are all under SDV:
    (Unless otherwise indicated, tuner does not map to a frequency when channel is selected. Many of these correspond to channels Cox OC stated would go SDV some time in April which is why I believe SDV is the reason they don't tune)

    30=CSPAN2 (Tunes Analog version with cablecards)
    107=JWLTV
    109=LEAC109
    110=SHOPNBC
    317=WTHRSCN
    319=FUEL
    320=FITV
    322=CCTV9
    335=TVG
    336=HRTV
    347=FUSE
    360=CMTPURE
    363=FOXREAL
    366=G4P
    393=GOLTV
    394=GALA
    395=DEPELUS
    396=THITUS
    397=BANDA
    398=MUN2P
    399=TVNI

    400-418=FOREIGN (17)

    500-596=PPV (16)

    601-684=SPORTS PACKAGES (30)

    732=SCIHD
    753=TRAVHD
    772=APLHD

    I don't care about any of the above thus far, so I think Cox OC is doing a good job of determining "least watched" channels to throw under SDV.
     
  9. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    True, but the one I mentioned, Universal HD, runs at 1080i on my local system (I just checked with the TiVo S-P-S-Instant-Replay-S display). The programs that I sampled were very sharp and clean. Given the resolution and average bit rate, I'd have expected a mess of "macroblocking" in high-motion scenes, but I couldn't detect any.
     
  10. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    NJ

    I'm actually pretty impressed that one of the shopping channels is switched.
     
  11. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    They can throw all of the other shopping channels in there along with several other Spanish channels as far as I'm concerned. ;)
    Assuming this SDV channel selection trend continues perhaps I won't need TAs at all.
     
  12. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    I wouldn't bet the farm on it. That said, some CATV systems are making a real effort to limit or at least delay the impact of their SDV deployment.
     
  13. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    San Diego,...
    We got the following in the mail yesterday:
    The list from the back of the page reads:
    Code:
    [b]East Coast Premiums[/b] (West coast channels still available with CableCARD)
    HBO East		Showtime East		Starz East
    
    [b]International Premiums[/b]
    The Filipino Channel	Saigon Broadcast TV
    
    [b]Movie Package[/b]
    Encore East		Encore Action East	Encore Mystery East
    Encore True Stories E.	Encore Westerns East	Encore Love Stories East
    
    [b]Spanish Language Package[/b]
    Cine Latino		Sopresa			Fox Sports en Espanol
    MUN2			MTV Tr3s		Video Rola
    Canal Sur		CNN en Espanol		Discovery Espanol
    Boomerang Espanol	Toon Disney Espanol	EWTN Espanol
    ESPN Deportes		Gol TV
    
    [b]Sports Package[/b]
    ESPNU			ESPNEWS			ESPN Classic
    SPEED			Fox Soccer Channel	FCS Pacific
    FCS Central		FCS Atlantic		HorseRacing TV
    Tennis Channels		GSN			NBA TV
    Fuel			CBS College Sports Network
    
    [b]High Definition Channels[/b]
    Universal HD		MOJO HD			HD Net
    HD Net Movies		NBA TV HD
    Overall, we're not being hit too badly at first, with a set of 45 channels, 25 of which are foreign-language channels and east-coast feeds of things where we'll still get the west coast ones non-switched. Only 5 of the switched broadcast channels are HD, two of which I had little use for (MOJO and NBA HD, the latter very rarely having content). I will miss the ability to record those "HD VIP Pak" channels in the interrim. I don't know if it's worth dropping it to save $6/month for however long its likely to be--we can still watch and record those channels on the SA8300HD (running the hideous Navigator IPG) in the meantime. I'll also miss The Tennis Channel and may well dump the "Digital Sports Pak", since that's all I ever watch on it. I suspect that any new broadcast HD channels that they add after starting to use SDV will be switched, though I could be wrong. The only HD service available now that I'm anxious to get is Sci Fi Channel HD--I'll be pissed if they add that one as switched.

    I suspect that the "special offer to help you during the transition" is a discount on leased digital STBs for a limited time.

    TiVo said that they expected the Tuning Adapter to be provided at no charge. Everybody doubted it, but it looks as though it might happen (someone posted in another thread--here--that Cox Pheonix sent out a letter in which they flatly stated that they weren't going to charge for the TA, whereas TWC's wording gives them leeway to change their mind :rolleyes:).
     
  14. SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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    Vero Beach, FL
    I would be absolutely elated if TWC Cary put a similar lineup on SDV and left the rest alone. HDNet is the only thing id miss and I too have an 8300HD with crapigator that I can record it on. Speaking of HDNet, wonder what happened to Star Trek: Enterprise? I have been following it for a long time and was into the last season with about 8 more episodes to go and it disappeared... bummer.
     
  15. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    I would expect channels to be moved to SDV in two or three phases, just like they're being moved from digital to analog.
     
  16. vstone

    vstone New Member

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    I wouldn't expect broadcast channels to be put on SDV. As analog transmissions cease, they will become part of the CFR's "basic service tier." Stations in the tier can not be "encrypted" or "scrambled" and must be carried "in-the-clear." While the FCC is busy twiddling their thumbs, all or almost all TV sets currently being sold in this country have a clear QAM tuner. Although cablecard equipped TV sets were advertized as Digital Cable Ready, the clear QAM tuner equipped TV sets are really technical equivalent of the old analog cable ready TV sets. Having said all of that, there is no telling what TWC or the FCC will do.
     
  17. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    While poking around looking for something else, I ran across this spec sheet for the Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter. The freakin' thing is officially 11.75"x8"X1.75" and weighs 2 lbs. Though we already had an idea of its size from the display at The Cable Show a month ago, it's still disappointingly large. Of course, I wasn't expecting them to optimize the size of it. I'm certain that it's based on something else they were already making, using as many of the same parts as possible. I just wished they had based it on something a bit smaller :rolleyes:.
     
  18. Jul 1, 2008 #1698 of 2401
    Saturn

    Saturn Lord of the Rings

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    I got this letter today:

     
  19. Jul 1, 2008 #1699 of 2401
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    Wow, throwing ESPN2 HD in the SDV mix is not very nice for sports fans...
     
  20. Jul 1, 2008 #1700 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    That's rough. They only took 5 of our HD channels (UHD, MOJO, the HDNets and NBA HD), 4 of which were in an added-cost package. I'll miss UHD and the HDNets in the interrim, but I'll survive. They took four of those plus another 8 channels from you guys. I'd really miss ESPN2 HD, since a lot of the summer hard-court tennis season (the "US Open Series") will be covered there. I'd also be miffed about losing TBS HD (the new season of The Closer starts on 7/14), NatGeo HD and HD Theater.

    They didn't even throw in "a special offer to help you during the transition" :rolleyes:. Cheeky and unapologetic. You have my sympathies.
     

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