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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    Dude, have you been paying any attention at all to the postings from The Cable Show? If you are going to be cocky on your first post then I'd think you should at least pay attention!
     
  2. cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Funny that you don't want to use a cable box, but the "dongle" is essentially a cable box.
     
  3. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    That's your claim, yet you offer nothing to back it up, much less a mea culpa rescinding your assertion that SDV is not the technology that delivers switched content like VOD and HD channels that aren't always on.
     
  4. smelchionda

    smelchionda New Member

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    One more time...

    anyone have an update. I'd rather not read though 52 pages of folks arguing about cable TV technology acronyms.
     
  5. smelchionda

    smelchionda New Member

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    Yes, that is why "dongle" was in quotes.
     
  6. ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    Your are lazy and I prefer not to tutor you on this topic. Look it up yourself.
     
  7. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    Plus, this shows that she was already up to date on the updates:
     
  8. ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    I have no dispute that VOD dynamically turns streams on and off (ie switching them) but the term SDV has never been and will never be used to refer to VOD. How can I prove a the non-existance of something.
     
  9. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    No, it doesn't. SDV dynamically turns streams on and of (i.e. switching them). VOD refers to the ability to utilize SDV to request a new stream. SDV does more than VOD, though, as it also provides for regular broadcast channels to be streamed as needed rather than constantly. SDV is bigger than just VOD, but VOD requires SDV. VOD is one of the offerings made available by SDV.

    Switched Digital Video makes Video On Demand possible.

    See above for clarification.
     
  10. smelchionda

    smelchionda New Member

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    May 20, 2008
    You guys have essentially hijacked this thread for your own little sword fight. Why don't you take this argument offline and hash it out amongst yourselves so that we don't have to read though 52 pages of opinion, speculation and anecdotes to find something marginally relevant to the average Tivo user impacted by SDV?
     
  11. cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Why don't you use the little scroll wheel on your mouse and read the following threads with SDV adaptor progress in their title??:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390736

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=375723

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=394039

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=394069
     
  12. ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    I don't know what else to say but SA recently launched SDV and Mot is only still in trials with SDV yet they both had VOD for many years. I guess you just have a different definition of what SDV is and both Mot and SA must have launched your version of SDV years ago.
     
  13. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    My original point is that the term SDV has been coopted to mean specifically using digital video switching to provide access to entire scheduled video services (like, "The Food Network HD" and "The History Channel HD")--it does not refer to the use of switching to provide VOD or IPPV. The fact that UDCR devices can't access those interactive services is well known and no one who bought one had the expectation of being able to use them without a leased STB (well, maybe a few slow-on-the-uptake people did :rolleyes:). No one cares about that--they care that their cable providers are using a new application of digital video switching to add new video services to tiers that they already subscribe to which they can't access using their UDCR equipment.

    The title of this thread is "SDV FAQ". The FAQ in the top post does not refer to VOD or IPPV when it uses the term SDV. I defy you to find a single article posted in the online technical press in the past two years which uses any of the terms "Switched Digital Video", "Switched Digital", "Switched Video" or "Switched Video Broadcast" while referring to VOD or IPPV. Are we to read the headline, "NCTA and TiVo Announce Switched Digital Solution for HD DVRs", in the NCTA's press-releases to mean that they've developed a solution which gives HD DVRs access to VOD or IPPV? No. When we read that, there was no confusion--we all knew exactly what they were talking about.

    Please--if there's a specific term for this recent bandwidth-conserving use of digital video switching on cable systems, please name it. Otherwise, we're left with having to say "non-VOD, non-IPPV SDV"; kind of awkward. Words and phrases which meant one general thing get coopted to mean something more specific all the time--language evolves, technical and otherwise, and like it or not, that's what's happened. We already had precise terms for VOD and IPPV; if we cut them out of the meaning of SDV, there's no loss to the jargon. Only the staunchly pedantic will mourn.

    The problem has been that a few people insist on using SDV interchangeably with VOD in this thread. It always causes confusion and one has to believe that the people who use it that way are purposely trying to cause confusion, for whatever personal reason.
     
  14. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    Like who? Can you show an example?
     
  15. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Well, there was this whole ridiculous discussion, as a case in point. MichaelK states that "Howard Stern TV" is a VOD channel now, but might become an SDV channel in the future. lrhorer quips in with "Virtually no one offers VOD unless it's SDV." He knew exactly what MichaelK meant, but the pedant in him just couldn't resist making the useless point that all VOD is Switched Video. Yes, cable systems have been doing digital video switching for years, but they have not had the ability to do this switching-used-to-share-bandwidth-between-broadcast-services trick until recently, and it required the deployment of both new equipment and new software to acheive it.

    BigBand Networks is probably the most popular supplier of systems for adding Switched Digital Video to cable networks. They have a product page at their site for "Switched Video" (here) which splits out into two sections, one labelled "Switched Digital Video" and one labelled "Video On Demand". Yes, VOD is "Switched Video" and yes, it's "Digital", but even the people who manufacture hardware and software systems for implementing it draw a distinction between "Video On Demand" and "Switched Digital Video".

    I've examined some product literature at Cisco and Motorola as well--it's riddled with phrases like "enable QAM sharing between SDV and VOD services" (from this Cisco/SA page on SDV products). Here's a choice segment from Motorola's "Using Bandwidth More Efficiently with Switched Digital Video" whitepaper (last paragraph of PDF page 3):
    (Forgive any typos--it's a "locked" PDF file that doesn't allow the cut operation so I had to transcribe that).

    The cable technology industry has a clear definition of "Switched Digital Video" as used in their published literature and does not use it as an umbrella term which encompasses "Video On Demand". (That Moto whitepaper would suggest, rather than VOD being a type of SDV, that SDV is a type of VOD). SDV refers specifically to the use of video switching to share a pool of bandwidth on network edge segments between a group of broadcast video services. This is not a "misuse"--it's the firmly established meaning of the term. Arguing that "VOD" is a type of "SDV" is tedious, wrong (according to the cable equipment industry) and utterly unproductive.
     
  16. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    That wasn't the thing that you and ah30k were complaining about. The complaint was that VOD was being used interchangeably with SDV, etc. WTF is the problem? Someone's being educated against their will?

    Of course they do. Good lord, why wouldn't they? They're two separate things. One is a mechanism, a protocol, while the other is one of the services made possible and available by that mechanism. In fact, the problem actually seems to stem from using the mechanism acronym (SDV) to also refer to another "service" (that is, something probably better called "Channel On Demand") made available by the mechanism.

    Well it certainly is wrong, as VOD is certainly not a type of SDV, nor is SDV a type of VOD, and I don't think anyone has claimed that.
     
  17. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    How is...
    ...not something which equates the two acronyms? Perhaps it's not using the two things "interchangeably"--I withdraw that claim. Happy now :rolleyes:? The statement does imply that VOD is a subclass of SDV, which, as the industry which invented both technologies defines the term SDV, is incorrect.
    The industry does not "also" use the term SDV to refer to what you call "a service", the industry only uses the term to refer to that. In fact, I consider your claim that anyone (other than you and lrhorer) uses the term "SDV" to refer to a generic video switching mechanism used to implement "VOD" and other things to be nonsense until you show me some evidence otherwise, anywhere on a cable equipment OEM's website or in the technical press. I showed you some evidence supporting my claim that it only refers to "a service", including a succinct definition comparing the two given in a Motorola whitepaper; I could show you much more of the same.
    Your statement...
    ...sounds a whole lot like that, to me. What the people who created both VOD and SDV mean when they say "Switched Digital Video" (and again, the only thing that they mean when they say that) doesn't have anything to do with Video On Demand. To implement what they call "Switched Digital Video", you have to purchase a bunch of additional software and hardware. If you installed all of that stuff and later decided to remove it all, your network wouldn't be capable of what the cable industry calls "Switched Digital Video" anymore, but it would still be able to do VOD (if it were able to do it to begin with).

    As I've shown, when Motorola, Cisco/SA and BigBand Networks say "SDV" they mean "video switching used to share a pool of bandwidth on edge segments between a group of broadcast video services"--if you examine the entirety of all of those companies' websites you will not find "SDV" used to mean anything else. It's a hot buzzword for a watershed technology which is being sold as a means for cable to continue to compete with the plethora of high definition broadcast services being offered by their DBS and telecomm rivals, without expending the momumental amounts of cash and time that would be required to actually expand the real bandwidth capacity of their networks. Arguing that it's a generic term for the basic video switching mechanism used to implement it and VOD is specious.
     
  18. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    San Antonio, TX
    Holy buttnuggets. It's like trying to convince relatives that I'm sending them an email, not an internet, that the email is transmitted over the internet, and they're insisting that because Sen. Ted Stevens said so, the facts themselves are irrelevant.
     
  19. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Georgia
    How embarrassing for you! :)
     
  20. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Yeah, it's a whole lot like that, isn't it :rolleyes:? (And thanks for that colorful interjection, BTW). The difference is that Sen. Stevens is pretty far removed from the details of Internet technology (though he may serve on some related advisory boards); the examples I offer are from companies who are at the heart of cable network tech. I give you examples of the industry's use of the term "Switched Digital Video" as drawn from three major OEMs providing equipment and software for implementing "Switched Digital Video" in HFC cable television networks. You offer as conflicting "fact" merely your sayso. Forgive me if your "argument" fails to impress.

    Again, two sentences from Motorola's "Using Bandwidth More Efficiently with Switched Digital Video" whitepaper (end of PDF page 3):
    (I think that Motorola is a somewhat stronger authority on cable network technologies than Sen. Stevens is an expert on the nuts and bolts of the Internet--YMMV :)). Whose definition of SDV should we use? One from Firekite (and lrhorer) or one from Motorola? I think that I've made it clear which way I lean on that.

    All we're really asking is to be able to continue this discussion with people being able to refer to "SDV channels" and "VOD channels" in the same post without someone replying "but VOD channels are SDV channels", which is, according to Motorola's definition of SDV--and BigBand's and Cisco/SA's--wrong, your personal definition of SDV notwithstanding, whereever it is that you derive it from.
     

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