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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Jul 30, 2007 #121 of 2401
    txagfan

    txagfan New Member

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    Jul 30, 2007
    Texas
    So you are against a company that is trying to bring more HD, more channels, and more choices for the MAJORITY of its customers. To put this bluntly, cablecard customers only make up about 1% of the cableco's customer base. The other 99% want the new channels and more HD. Plus the cable co's are a business, they have to compete with the 300+ channels D* is advertising. What do you expect them to do? Not offer anything new to 99% of their customer base so that the handful of cablecard customers can get SOME hd channels? Without SDV, cablecos cant offer any new HD channels unless doing something drastic like comcast did in Chicago. How this affects Chicago will be interesting because every customer will have to get a box on every outlet, kinda like D*. I like my S3 and want all of the HD channels I can get, but I understand where the cable co's are going. I want my S2DT to continue to work as a DUAL tuner and not need a box for my garage TV, so I would like for analog to stick around for awhile.
     
  2. Jul 30, 2007 #122 of 2401
    TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    You do make several good points that I haven't considered.

    Since I love my HD. I don't watch or record anything that isn't broadcast in full HD. Of course there are a couple of shows I will watch that aren't (Star Trek) and a few other exceptions of course. But 99% of my viewing is in HD. I do have to admit I WANT more HD. I know it's coming. HBO/Cinemax will be broadcasting all of their Movie channels in Full HD by 2-17-09. At least that is their plan.

    While maybe only 1% of their customers are on cable card. That number will be rising quickly now that even new deployment of thier STB/DVR's must now use cable card as well. So that number will be increasing quite fast over the next few years. SDV STB/DVRs can still use Cable cards.

    In my area TWC is currently upgrading & in some areas have allready upgraded to Fiber. Hopefully in my area they will never go SDV.

    Verizon Fios doesn't have this problem. Then again they are on fiber. So as Cable Co's upgrade to Fiber the need for SDV won't be needed.

    Full digital & HD are coming. Analog TV is on it's way out. There are some parts of the country where analog cable will be discontinued in the next few years for 100% digital.

    I do understand it is fully a Catch 22 situation for everyone. I do know that eventually it will all work itself out. The Switch from Analog to Digital/HD TV has been and will continue to be painfull for everyone involved.

    What makes it so painfull is that new equipment is needed by everyone at all stages levels. From the content providers to the consumers. Everyone at all levels need new equipment to handle Digital / HD TV which is expensive. It is this expense that makes it so painfull to everyone & SLOW!.

    So I do understand the points you made. There is no easy CHEAP easy solution that will satisfy everyones current needs. That is the sad fact.

    Whatever decesions that are made about SDV someone gets screwed anyways. Just like in OTA when 2-17-09 comes around. Those without Digital &/or HD TVS will be screwed unless the spend money on a new TV set, or Converter box.

    Sometimes I grasp at straws in desperation as well.

    TexasGrillChef
     
  3. Jul 30, 2007 #123 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Tampa, FL
    Although 95% of customers will need a STB, it isn't fair to say every customer at every outlet. Many new TVs include QAM tuners, which will be capable of watching the local broadcast channels.
     
  4. Jul 30, 2007 #124 of 2401
    vstone

    vstone New Member

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    Martinsville...
    Fiber to your house or fiber to the pole? Fiber to the house is essentially FIOS. Fiber to the pole will likly go SDV. The coax to your house carries analog & digital channels + internet + out of band communications.
     
  5. Jul 30, 2007 #125 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Tampa, FL
    Even with FIOS everything is carried over COAX. I just had FIOS installed Saturday and the fiber terminates at the box outside the house and only a coax cable runs inside the house.

    They gave me a router that included a coax input and on the cable side everything is the same as BHN. I already had a CAT5 outside too, but they told me that they don't use it.

    They also offer ~23 analog channels and don't use SDV.
     
  6. Jul 30, 2007 #126 of 2401
    vstone

    vstone New Member

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    Martinsville...
    I stand corrected, but now I'm intrerested in how they avoid doing something like SDV. After all, the tuner is still looking forsomething in the channel 2-135 (or 180) frequencies.
     
  7. Jul 30, 2007 #127 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Tampa, FL
    The key is 23 analog channels, cutting back from 75 to 23 analog channels increases the available throughput by almost 2Gbps, or ~156 HD channels.

    It isn't coax that's limiting cable, it's all those analog subscribers.
     
  8. Jul 30, 2007 #128 of 2401
    vstone

    vstone New Member

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    Martinsville...
    Then why are cable companies that are going all digital also implementing SDV? I believe Comcast in Chicago is in this category.
     
  9. Jul 30, 2007 #129 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Aug 1, 2004
    Tampa, FL
    Comcast in Chicago is definitely all digital, not sure about the SDV part.

    But either way you're right, why bother with SDV if you have plenty of bandwidth.
     
  10. Jul 30, 2007 #130 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Aug 1, 2004
    Tampa, FL
    Just ran across this article when I was trying to figure out if Chicago Comcast was using SDV. It mentions all the ways a Cable co' can increase it's throughput, including SDV, cutting back on analog and upgrading from a 750Mhz to 1Ghz system.
    http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6439357.html
     
  11. Jul 30, 2007 #131 of 2401
    vstone

    vstone New Member

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    Martinsville...
    Comcast here in SoVA just moved HGTV and dropped some Spanish (music?) channels. Wouldn't be surprised if they were gearing up for more HD channels. We are an old Adelphia system, but we were just upgraded to fiber in 2002-2002.
     
  12. Jul 30, 2007 #132 of 2401
    GoHokies!

    GoHokies! O2->CO2 Converter

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    KFME
    No, I'm opposed to the cable companies (by way of their lobby) convincing the FCC to selectively "enforce" the provisions of an over 10 year old law that SHOULD allow me to purchase my own hardware, connect it to my cable TV service and get all of the same features that everyone else gets. The problem is that the cable companies don't want this to happen, which is why CC only represents the small portion of customers that it does today.

    It is the cable companies that got us into this mess, and now that the problem is "too hard" to solve, they're going to have to find a way to make it work for EVERYONE, in accordance with the wishes of Congress (which, at least the last time I checked, were the ones that made the rules around here).
     
  13. Jul 30, 2007 #133 of 2401
    txagfan

    txagfan New Member

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    Jul 30, 2007
    Texas
    GoHokies, I agree with a lot that you are saying. For arguments sake, let's say that the FCC goes ahead and stops cable from implementing sdv. This will effectively stop most cable companies from bringing new services to their customers. Things like more HD, more bandwidth for phone and internet. Things their customers want. All while letting the sat companies do as they wish because they got waivers for open integration. Why do they(sat co's) still have waivers and are not even worrying about open systems? You can't really use the argument that sat. is not a competitor to cable. They are. So why force cable to stop innovation and let their competitors run wild with new services? I would love to see a two-way solution emerge sometime soon, but I'm not holding my breath :eek: .
     
  14. Jul 30, 2007 #134 of 2401
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    .worcester.m...
    They could also be using a broader frequency band. Many cable systems are still using 750MHz - even 650MHz or 550MHz in some areas, which limits their total channel capacity. 860MHz is fairly common on more modern systems - but 1GHz is also being used now, and there is talk of going higher than that, but I don't know if any MSOs have.
     
  15. Jul 30, 2007 #135 of 2401
    vman41

    vman41 Omega Consumer

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    The cable companies want to increase the number of high margin services like PPV, and don't care how much it inconveniences the majority of low margin customers.
    Walk me through how SDV is going to make Time Warner charge $25/month for their phone service instead of the $40/month they want now.
     
  16. Jul 30, 2007 #136 of 2401
    txagfan

    txagfan New Member

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    Jul 30, 2007
    Texas
    I guess competition is how twc will have to lower their phone rate. How sdv plays into that I don't know.
     
  17. Jul 31, 2007 #137 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    You extrapolated something that no one here is saying. At least none of the posts that I have read came across that way.

    Even though you weren't directly addressing me, I will respond as bluntly as you did.

    Why not kill off analog? It would make the network much more efficient, and free up bandwidth for more channels (SD and HD). Well, it's because subscribers, that don't want to use a digital tuner/cable company decoder, are holding back the cable companies from making their networks more efficient by switching to an all digital delivery system. Stop clogging up the network with analog "garbage" just because you want your equipment to continue to function... Oh wait. Isn't that what you said CC users were doing? To be fair, you did say that CC users are the minority, so I guess they really don't count...

    I applaud Comcast in Chicago. At least they are moving forward. I don't have a problem if the cable companies make their networks more efficient with the kludge - err, solution, called SDV. What I do have a problem with is that they haven't published a standard so that CE companies can produce compatible equipment that will work with SDV.

    No one ever guaranteed me that my S3 would continue to work for a specified period of time, and I am not demanding that it does. Now, on the other side of the coin are the analog cable TVs, VCRs and "TiVo like" devices that are in use. Just like with the S3, I don't recall ever getting a guarantee that my all of my TVs or S2 boxes would continue to work if the cable company changed their signal delivery scheme. I believe we all took it for granted that they would work for ever, but I never got a guarantee. Did you?

    If CC technology wasn't deliberately crippled, and it was offered as an alternative to an STB, at the time you placed an order for cable service, I would bet that 99.9% of people would prefer to use a CC over an STB. It's the spotty support from the cable industry that has hampered installation of CCs. When I first inquired about CCs, the cable company told me that there was no such thing. I had to PUSH to get them.

    BTW, I would suck it up, and buy a new TiVo that supported SDV/VOD if it were available. If I couldn't afford it, which is my current situation, I would be mad, deal with it, and be forced to use a cheaper alternative.

    SDV/VOD is AN answer, but it's not necessarily the RIGHT answer.
     
  18. Jul 31, 2007 #138 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Again we see more claptrap about monopolies, despite the fact that courts have definitively determined that the cable companies are not monopolies. I know it makes the Angry Young Man in us feel better to say nasty things about The Man, but it does nothing other than obfuscate the discussion. :thumbsdown:
     
  19. Jul 31, 2007 #139 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Congress could pay some lip service to this, and then just allow things to work out naturally, though market forces, given the competitive environment fostered by cable versus satellite versus new technology such as IPTV. That's where I would put my money, if we were betting.
     
  20. Jul 31, 2007 #140 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    The only customers that are entitled special treatment are those selecting lifeline cable. Other customers are in competition with each other for the affection of the cable and satellite companies -- whichever customers offer the companies the opportunity for the most profitability should win.
     

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