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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Jul 25, 2007 #101 of 2401
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    Yes, good stuff.

    But, its really just NCTA saying hey look Tom Rogers said this and everything is ok because we are working on it. It doesn't add anything, but maybe gives a little more credence to Rogers' comment being realistic.

    The OCAP stuff is just cable saying hey look ... everyone is making OCAP devices. Everything is A ok. Everyone is happy. Which isn't so.
     
  2. Jul 29, 2007 #102 of 2401
    JoeSchueller

    JoeSchueller New Member

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    Jun 16, 2004
    So honestly, you're a consumer that does most of his/her HD recording/viewing on the big 4, ESPNHD, HBOHD, and kids' channels. You long for the TiVo interface over the SA8300HD box TWC makes you live with. VOD and one-click PPV aren't things you need/desire.

    With all due respect to those who plunked down the $800 for a S3, should you be worried about dropping $300 + $300 for 3 years of service on a TiVo HD? If you're a TWC customer, do you forsee HD channels being moved to SDV? Is it reckless to dive in to this right now or is 3 years a reasonable window to see how things play out?
     
  3. Jul 29, 2007 #103 of 2401
    TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    So let me ask this question then.

    If lets say a cable company has 10 channels to offer. but bandwidth for only 5 channels so that all 10 channels are "Switched". So that they only broadcast teh 5 channels that are in "demand" and being watched.

    What happens, if lets say I had 10 STB's &/or DVR's and each STB/DVR was swtiched to a different channel. So that all 10 of my units were watching each & everyone of the 10 stations. Or at least wanting too.

    First Question:
    WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? Would 5 of the STB/DVR's not get the channel they wanted?

    So now in REAL life... lets say our cable company decided to SDB 6 of the available channels they had. Lets also say I have 6 TVs with STB/DVR's (Currently I have 4, so adding 2 more isn't a far streatch for me)

    So If I then had each of my STB's swtiched to all of the 6 channels that are SDV, what would happen? Whats the LEGAL repsonsibility from the cable company to provide me with that signal?

    TexasGrillChef
     
  4. Jul 29, 2007 #104 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Aug 1, 2004
    Tampa, FL
    The problem with your question is that they can fit more than 10, it's more like hundreds. So the odds of them running out of channels is much less. But if they did run out of channels they'd probably stop offering VOD.

    It's easier to tell someone they can't buy something right now, than to deny them something their already entitled to.
     
  5. Jul 29, 2007 #105 of 2401
    TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    Ok.. so what if I bought 100 STB's or got 100STBS and put one on each channel? Then what?

    Or.. I got a colition of everyone in my neighborhood. to get one STB/DVR each (their are 185 of us) and we all put t on 185 different channels that have are all SDV's

    What would happen? Would some people not get channels? Would that force them to stop offering some channels?

    What I am trying to ask is what happens on the cable side if every single channel they offere is being requested by their "Customers" to view? Especially if they are in the same neighborhood?

    Understand my question now? If every single channel that was being SDV was requsted and wanted to be viewed. What would happen? And what would the legal ramifications be from a user/Cable company be?

    TexasGrillChef
     
  6. Jul 29, 2007 #106 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Aug 1, 2004
    Tampa, FL
    I got your point the first time, obviously when you over-allocate you risk running out, but that is why they only plan to use SDV for the un-popular channels.

    Also we are talking about more than 100 channels, a 900Mhz system can hold 150, 6Mhz QAM256 channels. Assuming they waste half of them on analog channels that leaves 75. Each channel can carry 38Mbps, so to make it simple lets pretend they're all HD channels which they cap the bandwidth for each channel, so they can fit 3 HD channels, for a total of 225 HD channels. Unfortunately for them, there is overhead and other services so lets just say 200 channels. Now everything isn't HD, so if we wanted to look at just SD channels then they can fit about 9 SD channels per QAM channel or (75*9=675 channels). Keep in mind that this is all per distribution feed.

    So in order to avoid what you are talking about, they can limit the amount of over-allocation to the number of VOD channels they have, then when they are at 120% (guess), they will just stop offering VOD or PPV. If the problem persists they will analyze which channels are being watched and split your neighborhood to prevent the issue permanently.

    This works for them because they can use the bandwidth that would be otherwise wasted -- 'cause no one was watching one of those great new HD channels that shows almost no HD -- and use it to sell more PPV, etc.
     
  7. Jul 29, 2007 #107 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    You will get a "Channel Not Available" message. The thing is, are all 185 of you in the same node, or same SDV service group? If you are, then you could probably max out the available bandwidth. Bandwidth usage is strictly monitored to maximize the effectiveness of SDV. If the bandwidth usage is constantly over say 70%, they would probably segment your node/service group so that customers wont get this message.
     
  8. Jul 29, 2007 #108 of 2401
    TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    I understand that cable co's use SDV on channels that as a whole are watched infrequently by their subscribers. So it works out for them and makes them look better in being able to offer more channels.

    I guess my point as consumers go, if it would make things difficult for them. If there were always at least ONE STB/DVR always watching every single channel they have to offer. Would it cause them problems? What would they do about it? What could they do about it?

    Forgetting about consumer cost for a minute. If they did offer 200 channels, some HD, Some SDV and I had 200 STB/DVR's and each on a seperate channel. Would it cause the cable co problems?

    TexasGrillChef
     
  9. Jul 29, 2007 #109 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    If you had two-hundred boxes, then you would have your own node and sdv service group. The cost of that would be covered quickly by the rental fees for two hundred boxes.
     
  10. Jul 29, 2007 #110 of 2401
    vman41

    vman41 Omega Consumer

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    What's the 'lease period' for an SDV channel request? Does the system provide for smoothly migrating a channel to a stream on another frequency? If the point of SDV is bandwidth management, migration capability is desireable so you can defragment your allocation map if needed.
     
  11. Jul 29, 2007 #111 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Please define "they". Specifically, what cable companies have this policy in place - to split a node - when "the bandwidth usage is constantly over say 70%".
     
  12. Jul 29, 2007 #112 of 2401
    TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    so on my own node & SDV service group would still be 200 boxes each on the 200 channels they offer. So wouldn't it still present a problem for that node & SDV service group?

    TexasGrillChef
     
  13. Jul 29, 2007 #113 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    Here is they:
    http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454447.html

    I was guessing at the 70%, but going off of traditional VOD guidelines, this is where you need to start looking at the number of boxes in a service group so that you have adequate bandwidth for all of the boxes.
     
  14. Jul 29, 2007 #114 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

    525
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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    Still going off of this:
    http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454447.html

    If you had 200 boxes on 200 different channels what matters is how many qam's does the cable co have devoted to sdv. An example of say Chicago, which just did away with analog, they can have a LOT of channels doing SDV. I don't know if Chicago is doing a 750, 900 or 1 gig system, but they can put up to 10 sd channels on a single 6mhz qam. I haven't done the math, but that's a lot of static, non switched channels in itself. Now if they switched all of their channels, the limit of channels is a lot. I'm rambling here, but to answer your question you could cause problems it the cable co didn't allocate enough freq's in their sdv qams.
     
  15. Jul 29, 2007 #115 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    What article, on that page, are you referring to?

    Ah. I believe that this is where the problem lies. Based on stories I have read, and my own experiences with cable companies, most cable companies do not want to split nodes because it's expensive. For the most part, a customer has to put up with sub par service, for a long time, before a cable company will split a node.

    We are dealing with monopolies, and they usually don't move too fast. Of course, if you live in Verizon FIOS country, your experience will be different (better).

    I have yet to see a cable company divulge how many people they will service on a node before they split it. Even more scarce is how many people a particular model of node is capable of handling. If you have this data, or know where I can find it, please let me know.

    EDIT: I want to add that currently, I am happy with my cable company (Cablevision). They have done an outstanding job of keeping their services at a very respectable level, and their customer service has really improved over the last year and a half.

    So far, all of the channels they put on SDV, have been specialty channels. My personal feeling is that this is an acceptable compromise because if I want a specialty channel, then I'll use "special" equipment. When / if they start adding core channels to SDV, then I will consider alternative solutions to cable delivery.
     
  16. Jul 29, 2007 #116 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    I just noticed that the link has kinda disappeared...used to go to the scte conference where the director of digital systems in austin explained how they did sdv...sorry, looking for that article now since I just copied it from the OP
     
  17. Jul 29, 2007 #117 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

    525
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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
     
  18. Jul 29, 2007 #118 of 2401
    cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

    525
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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
     
  19. Jul 29, 2007 #119 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

    2,119
    0
    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
     
  20. Jul 30, 2007 #120 of 2401
    TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

    1,792
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    Sep 15, 2006
    I am lucky enough to be in an area that doesn't have SDV. Thank god.

    I like to cause troubles for cable co's when they do things we don't like.

    Since MRV isn't around yet for HD, and since VOD and certain other 2 way services still require their DVR. I have at least one TWC DVR. I regulary return it. In hopes that I will get a newer box when they have one available. They don't like me very well at the local office! LOL

    Since I own an Apartment complex with 800 units. I was just wondering about the feasability in causing them issues should they start SDV in my area. I live pretty close to the complex I own.

    I am highly opposed to SDV. So it might be worth my investment to cause them issues should that happen. Just a thought.

    Always looking for ways to make it more difficult for them when they do things that go agains't our needs.

    Thanks for your education. I do appreciate that.

    TexasGrillChef
     

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