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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Rayd8tor

    Rayd8tor New Member

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    Mar 11, 2008
    San Antonio,Tx
    Well the Fellas from TWC just left, and will be coming back. Were supposed to bring a Mcard, but mistakenly brought Scards. Oh well. They will be back tomorrow. It's runnning fine, and the channel list given by Irhorer was spot on. So now I'm stuck with the decision of dropping the HD tier all together. Since TWC gives the local network channels free in HD to anyone who has a box or a cable card, and I really don't get any of the channels in the HD tier now due to SDV I figure I'll drop that option all together.

    Firekite,
    Do you get any of the music channels? Mine don't work with the TivoHD, and according to the TWC brocure they should. I figure I'd ask and see before they guys come back tomorrow evening.
     
  2. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
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    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    Being aced out of 20 linear HD channels is harsh, but besides the HD locals, you still have access to:
    150 Fox Sports Net HD +
    127 TNT HD +
    124 ESPN HD +
    130 HD Theater +
    163 HDNET Movies +
    162 HDNet +
    164 Universal HD +
    160 MOJO (NBA TV HD pre-empted on MOJO) +​
    I don't know how they're packaged in San Antonio, but on my local TWC system, the last four are offered for an additional $5/month as the "HD VIP Pak", and Fox Sports Net HD comes with the Sports Pak :rolleyes:. (BTW, marking "Fox Sport Net HD" with "Special Events" is unnecessary--it is not a 24 hour channel in any market; you get the version for your local area which only covers locally relevant games. San Antonio probably gets the FSN HD Southwest schedule, which is relatively full, compared to some areas).

    Also, if you subscribe to the appropriate premium channel tiers, you can still get:
    382 Cinemax HD +
    380 HBO HD +
    182 Showtime HD +
    383 Starz HD +
    384 TMC HD +
    186 The Movie Channel HD +​
    Count your blessings :).

    Do they charge extra for an "HD tier" in San Antonio? In San Diego, you generally get the HD channel is you get the SD version.
     
  3. pmiranda

    pmiranda New Member

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    Feb 12, 2003
    Austin, TX
    That might violate the HDMI and/or HDCP specs for content protection, although it might be possible to still offer buffering of live, copy-never content and recording of other content by using the copy bits which I think are still sent along HDMI?

    The biggest reason not to do this (other than losing a tuner and still requiring an external set-top) is the cost of getting that raw bitstream compressed on the fly. The silicon to do this is really starting to get reasonably priced these days, but it was still prohibitively expensive when the S3 was built.

    Personally, I vastly prefer the S3's architecture and I can't wait to get my tuning resolver, although it won't be as sweet until TW starts carrying Speed HD.
     
  4. Rayd8tor

    Rayd8tor New Member

    19
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    Mar 11, 2008
    San Antonio,Tx

    Yes. they charge for the HD tier now. I think it's like $6 a month or something close. Here is the catch though, recently TWC started touting "The home of FreeHD". I called and what that means is that if you have one of their boxes, of any kind including cable cards, then you get the local network channels in HD free of charge. Having realized that I'm paying for the HD Tier, and now have Tivo and now don't get hardly any of the main channels I want, DiscoveryHD, NatGeoHD,HistHD,AnimalHD,A&EHD, it's smarter for me to drop the HD tier all together and just get the Networks free. After I factor in dropping that Tier and getting rid of the POS 8300, i'm saving money in the long run. At least until this mythical SDV Dongle/Repetor arrives. what is wierd to me is that with Tivo touting that its coming 2nd Qtr 08, why is it that you can't seem to find any rock solid information on the progress of the thing. I'd have thought that if it was just about ready to be released there would be information from someone or some website about the thing and how well it works. Another question I have is who am I going to get this thing from? TWC or directly from TIVO? Just makes me a bit nervous not being able to find any solid info on it.
     
  5. cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    The tuning resolver will be supplied by the cable co's. Each cable co can have a different return data carrier freq, modulation. Thus the cable co will have to set it up to work with their return system and SDV vendor. No word on price, if any.
     
  6. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    That's just pure marketing buzz. FCC regulations require that any rebroadcast of an over-the-air transmission be included in the core basic tier (the set of channels that you get for the lowest cable subscription price); it is a violation of regulations for anything in the core basic tier to be scrambled or encrypted. This has been true since before the beginning of HDTV transmission and its rebroadcast on cable--they couldn't charge you extra for the local DTV channels if they wanted to.

    For $6/month I'd probably keep the HD tier, particularly if you get HD Net, HD Net Movies, Universal HD, TNT HD and ESPN HD in that, but that's just me. It certainly isn't as good a value as getting the other 20 channels as well, but I'll pay anything reasonable for additional good HD programming and $6/month is peanuts in terms of cable content pricing (I'd probably be willing to pay $6/month for The Closer in HD on TNT HD alone :)).

    Don't expect the cable companies to advertise the availability of the tuning resolver boldly. Keep an eye on these forums; I'm sure that TiVo will let us know when it starts shipping. Presumably no one in the field has one yet, so no one can be writing about how well it works. If you're at all technical, you can read CableLabs' OpenCable Tuning Resolver Interface Specification. (CableLabs is the cable-provider-funded organization which created the CableCARD standard).

    If you're really nervous you can take your TiVo HD back--you just got it. TiVo's supposed to be coming out with a "Series4" <tru2way>-compliant unit probably this fall or next spring.
     
  7. ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    Jan 8, 2006
    Hadn't heard this before (the fall/spring part). I might have just overlooked the news. Where did you hear this?
     
  8. routerman

    routerman New Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    Austin, Texas
    This is definitely a viable option that addresses the inherent inefficiencies of analog transmissions. My guess is that the Cable companies look at these changes in relation to the numbers of subscribers affected. The numbers of customers affected is much greater when killing an analog channel than moving an existing or adding a new channel to SDV.

    It is still a numbers game whether we want to believe it or not...
     
  9. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    Just BS speculation on my part. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they managed to introduce such a box this Fall, but would be surprised if it didn't emerge by Fall 2009.
     
  10. Firekite

    Firekite New Member

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    Mar 11, 2008
    San Antonio, TX
    Fair enough. The list of channels was posted in this thread, which is why I asked for confirmation, and that confirmation has been given, but in the future I'll keep that in mind.

    As to the rest of it, thanks for the info. I'm not aware enough of the difference between the (compressed?) signal coming over the cable lines and what actually is sent to the TV screen, etc, so it's good to know TiVo execs aren't missing something big :)
     
  11. alyssa

    alyssa Active Member

    1,638
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    Dec 7, 2003
    The...
    Thanks for the summation.
    On the FYI vain, I just received a letter from TWC. The notable quote is:
    "In order to access on Demand Programming , the interactive Programing guide, switched digital video and other two way services you must use digital cable equipment that includes two-way capabilities such as TWC- provided set top boxes."

    eta; the letter was with regards to the Portland ME & NH cable service.
    TW hwas added a few HD channels in SDV (history, NG etc), but they are saying a bunch of the sports & movie west channels are switching to sdv.
     
  12. nocturne1

    nocturne1 Member

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    Aug 17, 2004
    Have any of the cable providers actually committed to doing this? Yes, TiVo is working with CableLabs. But I haven't seen anything myself that says that the cable guys are actually going to put resources into testing/certifying/deploying that solution.
     
  13. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,382
    43
    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    I do remember Comcast saying they'd go along with it, but I don't remember where I saw that.
     
  14. cableguy763

    cableguy763 New Member

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    Oct 29, 2006
    Austin
    CableLabs was created by the cable co's. Any product that is cablelabs certified, cable has to support. Cable is really not developing this, it's the vendors that make cable equipment i.e. Motorola, SA, and BigBand.
     
  15. m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

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    Jan 3, 2002
    Albany, NY
    Nothing in writing yet (that I've seen).

    At best, there's a picture of a prototype unit for Motorola devices. But nothing from SA (that's been published anyway).
     
  16. nocturne1

    nocturne1 Member

    58
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    Aug 17, 2004
    Trust me, it's not as simple as that. There's a number of technologies developed by CL that haven't made it to all of the providers, as they don't always choose to implement them. And it takes more than being certified to being supported/allowed on the network. It sucks, but it's true...
     
  17. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    The individual cable providers have not made individual pronouncements, but the National Cable and Telecommunications Association has; one assumes that the NCTA, in part the cable industry's lobby group, does not make statements saying what its members will do without member concensus. The Tuning Resolver was put forth as a solution in an NCTA filing with the FCC (which is a response to this June 2007 FCC request for comments on this November 2006 proposal by the Consumer Electronic Association that they be given a light-weight alternative to implementing OCAP to get interactive function into low-cost products, something the cable providers would much rather not give them). The NCTA has further made joint press releases with TiVo about progress, one of which stated their expectation that cable providers would begin distributing the Tuning Resolver sometime in the 2nd quarter of calendar 2008:
    It should be noted that that PR contained a comment by a Time Warner Cable exec:
    Given its normal pace of action, the FCC will be about due to respond to the comments that they requested by the end of the 2nd quarter; this response would normally include new regulations requiring something to be done about the issue. The cable providers, through the NCTA, have stated what they would like to do about it, which includes distribution of the Tuning Resolver. They've expressed plans to start distributing the TR before the FCC can order anything.
     
  18. hsfjr

    hsfjr (no subject)

    27
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    Apr 13, 2002
    SDV-land...
    I can tune the music channels on my TiVoHD here on TWC-Austin... (but I've de-selected them in my channel list since I never intend to record them).

    I keep checking here (the whole site) pretty much every day looking for the things I am anxious for... (Tuning Resolver, Desktop 2.6, next software release, etc...)

    I did just spend some evenings cleaning up my channel list for items I get in duplicate or not at all (SDV), and the above posted list for TWC-Austin (without double-checking line for line) reflects my experience with my channel line-up now... (I am not actually IN Austin, so I may have some minor differences)
     
  19. Rayd8tor

    Rayd8tor New Member

    19
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    Mar 11, 2008
    San Antonio,Tx
    Well that is interesting. I do not get them, and was told last night by the installer and the TWC person he was getting to hit the card that in order to get the music channels you needed a box to receive them. According to them the music channels are not SDV. I wonder how your getting them and I'm not, because I sure would like to get them since I'm paying for them. There should not be that big of a difference from Austin's setup vs. San antonios.
     
  20. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    Jan 10, 2002
    NJ
    Probably I'd agree with that 100%, but how does the SDV not harm this effort to take care of the CE folks?

    It makes any separable security mandate almost moot in regions where SDV is deployed.

    Maybe the tuning resolver changes that to a degree, but I dont think that's the end came in the CE people's play book.
     

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