1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,924
    1
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    I'm not overlooking it in the least. The discussion revolves around devices which will require a dongle, not around those which do not. Oh, and by the way, the lack of an external STB is not a feature of OCAP. It is the primary reason for separable security and CableCard in the first place. The problem is, there is no standard for bidirectional hosts.

    Only if the CATV vendor in question supports OCAP. Scientific Atlanta doesn't. Of course, it will still function perfectly as a unidirectional host, but no interactive services, inlcuding SDV, unless the vendor has OCAP hardware.

    You missed the point entirely. The question is why should a receiver manufacturer go to the trouble of designing a dongle-ready set when they can simply produce a non-separable security set and let the CATV provider handle it when the perceived value to the customer is the same?

    That makes no sense at all.

    1. The Comcast Tivo is a DVR, not a TV. Almost nothing of its functionality is of any use to a TV.

    2. The subscriber is not allowed to download anything as far as OCAP is concerned. Downloading under OCAP is entirely the prerogative of the CATV vendor. The subscriber has no choice either way and cannot exert control either for the software to be loaded or prevent it from being loaded.

    3. OCAP is not a UI nor an OS. It's middleware. The TiVo software consists of an OS (Linux 2.4) and a UI, plus some supplied or available middleware.

    4. Although all OCAP software by design must be compatible with any OCAP device, the OS and all operational software including the UI are specific to a device. TiVo software won't run on a TV unless the software is modified to run on the platform or the hardware is modified to emulate the TiVo hardware. Downloading OCAP software won't modify the UI only allow it (or force it, if you will) to provide additional specific capabilities. The general capabilities must already exist in the UI - but of course they must in the first place for the device to be OCAP compliant.
     
  2. morac

    morac Cat God

    9,163
    70
    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    I'll mention that Comcast, the largest U.S. cable provider, has already stated that they will be using Motorola for SDV. They will start deploying SDV this year.
     
  3. vstone

    vstone New Member

    1,235
    0
    May 11, 2002
    Martinsville...
    Regarding downloading Tivo software to a TV set, presumably one without a hard disk. Even without DVR capabilities, the Tivo interface is far better than that on most STBs, which are mostly made by MOTO and SA. Presumably the Tivo IF could reworked a bit, presuming that Comcast (in this case) were willing to pay for it (I doubt it).

    Is Panasonic still planning on releasing a cable STB? Is Panasonic willing to go big time with the same type of interface that their VCR's and DVR's have had. Will they be willing to have just whatever the cable company want to give them? 95% of this theoretical cable box IF would be the same as an OCAP TY set.
     
  4. ksmith80209

    ksmith80209 New Member

    14
    0
    Jan 4, 2003
    Bump. I'm in the same boat in Denver. Anyone have an answer?
     
  5. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,400
    44
    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
  6. timstack8969

    timstack8969 Member

    462
    0
    May 14, 2004
    I was reading that comcast is now test SDV in Cherry Hill, NJ and Denver, CO. My question is that there must be someone in these area's with the HD TIVO how are they able to watch the channels now without that adapter that they are coming out with in 2008?
     
  7. morac

    morac Cat God

    9,163
    70
    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    While I don't live in Cherry Hill (though it's close by) I can answer this. The answer is that currently they can't. It's no different than the TiVo HD/S3 users in Time Warner areas that use SDV.
     
  8. smb56

    smb56 New Member

    30
    0
    Dec 16, 2003
    Middle Georgia
    Cox Cable Middle Ga. has just put out 3 new channels all in SDV. CNN-HD, Food Network - HD and HGTV-HD. Calls into Cox have netted me the response of "corporate made a decision and with their being no 2 way communications between a cable card and the cable company, you can't get the newer channels. We are running out of band width". The band width they are talking about only has 17 HD channels which about half are worth watching. If anyone has any info as to the rollout of the SDV "dongle", I would love to hear about it. The marketing people here at Cox just are finding out about SDV and really don't have a clue about it.

    smb56
     
  9. skaggs

    skaggs AlbanyHDTV

    233
    0
    Feb 13, 2003
    Albany, NY
    Letter sent by Albany TWC concerning moving existing broadcast HD channels to SDV:
    Why is the FCC allowing this?

    I can see if they want to add NEW channels, but taking channels away from us cable card users has to be in violation of some kind of FCC rule.

    Why mandate cable cards in the first place if the cable companies are just going to find a way to make you rent their equipment?

    I subscribe to the HD Tier and Universal HD is in the HD Tier. How do I get all the channels in the HD Tier if they make them SDV?
     
  10. morac

    morac Cat God

    9,163
    70
    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    I notice there's no mention of the tuning resolver. Unless that's what they mean by "purchase at retail", but I would take that to mean two-way capable devices like the expected Tru2way compatible TiVo.
     
  11. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,407
    3
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    So far as I can tell, no specific rule in the FCC regs regarding support of CableCARDs is violated by their doing this. It probably violates the spirit of the regulations (particularly if you've read the "Report and Order" which generated them), but not the letter.

    Unidirectional CableCARD is a failure, pure and simple. The FCC did not back them very firmly--if they had, they wouldn't have given the cable providers a 2 year extension on using them in leased boxes, and they'd have had to have used S-Cards, which could only have improved their support for them.

    We're all just screwed until the Tuning Resolver arrives, whenever that may happen.
     
  12. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,407
    3
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    And why would you expect them to mention the tuning resolver? The person who penned that letter probably never heard of it, and if they did, what motive would they have to tell people that it was coming, when people who don't know about it might toss their TiVos and lease cable company equipment, with which they could additionally buy VOD and IPPV :rolleyes:?

    Do not expect the cable providers to do any more to promote the Tuning Resolver than they did to promote uDCR (which is to say, nothing). There's nothing in it for them and they'd just like for the people using those devices to quietly stop.
     
  13. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,400
    44
    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    Combined with the lack of any action taken, based on previous conversions to SDV, it is the same as saying that it doesn't violate the regulations.

    Yup.
     
  14. m_jonis

    m_jonis Member

    625
    0
    Jan 3, 2002
    Albany, NY
    Yes, "whenever" that arrives. And, I interpret TW letter to mean that you'll have to pay for it, contrary to Tivo's assertion that they "expect it to be free".

    Of course, I think Tivo is deluding themselves (they also expect it to be available Q2, 2008?)

    I think cable will drag its feet as long as it can and the FCC will let them get away with it.
     
  15. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    11,253
    72
    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
    The way I understood it, Motorola was predicting to have hardware available by Q2, 2008, but that could be delayed. That doesn't mean Tivo will be ready by then - heck they may have to start a beta program around then once they can get hold of more hardware which may mean a couple more months beyond that. Then who knows when your local cable franchise may get some - and what's their incentive to order them early and in mass quantities? There will probably be a waiting list once/if available locally. So I'm going under the (perhaps pessimistic) assumption that if you are in a Moto headend you may be lucky to have something by end of 2008, if you are in an SA headend sometime after that... By then we may start seeing an S4 with built in tuning resolver or some form of 2-way comm.
     
  16. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

    7,308
    1
    Jan 10, 2002
    NJ

    bummer- I was hoping motorola said it. That would have some basis in truth at least.

    The NCTA/Cablelabs flat out lies at times.

    Look at thier LEGAL filings to the FCC about M-card availibility and then see when the m-cards really arrived. There was a significant disconect in their filind and reality if I'm remembering correctly.
     
  17. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,407
    3
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    No, I'm dead certain that what the letter was referring to was the wave of <tru2way> products expected at retail as early as possibly late this Spring. Those can have code for the cable providers' IPGs downloaded into them, giving access to IPPV and VOD in addition to SDV tuning, all without use of leased cable provider equipment other than a single M-Card. The tuning resolver is going to have to be distributed by the cable providers; there are areas like where I like (San Diego) served by two or more providers using incompatible equipment which will require a different tuning resolver for each, and it would be very difficult for cable subs to select the proper one for their system if they tried to sell them at retail.

    The FCC has to answer the CEA's complaint that implementing OCAP adds far too much to the cost of a product when all they need is a mechanism for SDV tuning (and, preferably, IPPV and VOD); that complaint asks that the FCC order development of support for a light-weight interactive solution that they're calling "Digital Cable Ready Plus". The NCTA responded by saying that they could solve the problem much faster and more cheaply with the Tuning Resolver. If they drag their feet at all in delivering the Tuning Resolver, the FCC is likely to order the implementation of DCR Plus with some sort of delivery deadline, which will cost the cable industry much, much time and money and discourage the creation of <tru2way> products. They have plenty of incentive to deliver this as quickly as possible. They want to say, "See--we already have the Tuning Resolver ready, generously made available to the consumer for little or no charge, which is all you really need." Even with that, the FCC could choose to order DCR+, but cable wants to offer up a solution without being ordered to virtually before a decision can be rendered.
    That prediction did not come from a Motorola statement, but from a PR issued by TiVo and the NCTA:
     
  18. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,407
    3
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    So far as I know, M-Cards became available by 1 July 2007, which was the FCC's revised deadline (they filed in 2004 for a 2 year extension on a 1 July 2005 deadline in order to finish M-Card and OCAP, which they were granted). In early 2007, they filed to get an extension to allow them to finish DCAS, which was denied. No one was forced to deploy M-Card, but any cable provider purchasing new boxes for lease purposes with built-in conditional access methods after 1 July 2007 would be in violation of FCC regs.
     
  19. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

    7,308
    1
    Jan 10, 2002
    NJ
    If I recall the NCTA in respnse to tivo's repeated complaints about no m-cards said they expected availibility would be before the July 1, 2007 deadline (which to my knowledge said NOTHING about needing m-cards availible only that cable had to use cards of some sort themselves and they decided m-cards were best to deal with their own dvrs') . And then regardless they were not readily avilible in many places until much later in the year.


    Too lazy to research so I could be wrong but that's my recollection of what really happened.
     
  20. mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,407
    3
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    They may well have lied to TiVo about when M-Cards would be available. The FCC requirement had nothing to do with M-Cards specifically; it just forbid them to buy any new boxes after the deadline with built-in conditional access. Which approved separable security mechanism their new boxes used was up to them--the point was to get them to start using something so that the CE industry could design products that were compatible to a standard being used by the cable industry itself. The cable industry was not itself using S-Cards in unidirectional hosts, and people using them could not access their lucrative interactive offerings, so their support for products which used them was woefully poor and lackadaisical
     

Share This Page