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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Jan 4, 2008 #981 of 2401
    ldudek

    ldudek New Member

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    Sep 2, 2007
    Just some observations and comments.

    First let me admit that I just looked over the last page, didn't read every little comment and just got the "jist" of what is being said. I smeeked so sue me.:D

    Second IMHO Bicker usually delivers a pretty good argument. He's honest and I've seen him admit when he is wrong. Now having said that it may seem to many that he sides with the cable company frequently. It may seem that way but only because he is giving an honest statement.

    Now having said that I want to know why in all this discussion about cable cards, SDV, people not getting it in their area there was no mention about the dongle. If it was mentioned, I apologize I didn't see it. Will it be out second quarter of this year? I kind of doubt it as it seems anytime cable says anything they usually are off on their predictions, and Bicker before you slice and dice me on this one I will admit that TiVo is frequently off too. But I do believe it will be out some time this year.

    If you didn't take the time to research your area, SDV, and such then really that's nobody's fault but your own. I know I did when I bought mine.

    Oh and one last thing. Bicker I liked the "sue them" comment. Hey, why not a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT.:D
     
  2. Jan 4, 2008 #982 of 2401
    gatzke

    gatzke New Member

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    Dec 28, 2007
    I had a crappy SA 8300 HD PVR box from my cable company, so I had access to all the HD they provide.

    I bought a Tivo HD assuming that with a cable card I would get the same HD channels.

    I had no indication that cable cards were limited in HD channels. Eventually I found after the fact the small print on their web page that said some "services" are not available to cable card subscribers. Even if I had seen that before my Tivo purchase, I would have assumed they mean no PPV or on Demand whcih are services, not channels.

    I am not super happy, but at least I am back on a Tivo again. Maybe in a year we get the USB SDVfix...
     
  3. Jan 4, 2008 #983 of 2401
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

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    You're way too late, that was suggested back in post #311. If it had been posted in the mid 200's, I would have won $30 from my office pool.

    Is it me or is this thread just going in circles?

    Anyway, the Motorola solution is due by June 30, 2008, a.k.a. "second quarter". The SA solution, which is needed much more as most of the SDV implementation is with SA systems, is TBD.
     
  4. Jan 4, 2008 #984 of 2401
    ldudek

    ldudek New Member

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    Sep 2, 2007
    Who says "All and one last thing?" I do apparently. I fixed that.

    I was unaware of the SA TBD thing. Can you point me as to where that info is located?
     
  5. Jan 4, 2008 #985 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Actually, I believe that in some filing to the FCC the cable providers have claimed that they expect to have solutions ready for distrbution by the end of the second calendar quarter of 2008. I don't think that any official announcement of any solution has been made by Motorola--some guy purported to to have close contacts in Motorola wrote in his blog that they have a prototype and that we should expect it to resemble the now-useless DCT-700 digital-only STB (cable providers can't purchase boxes now with built-in conditional access methods and the DCT-700 lacks a CableCARD slot); the only statement from a Motorola representative that I've been able to ferret out on the net simply stated that their development of a tuning resolver was going fine, without giving any details of when it should be done or what it will look like. Bits of consumer electronics don't get much simpler than this--I've seen cell phones that were at least an order of magnitude more complex completed in six months. When they say that they'll have something ready to ship by the middle of the year, I don't doubt it.
     
  6. Jan 4, 2008 #986 of 2401
    jimhutchins

    jimhutchins New Member

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    May 25, 2004
    This very closely mirrors the scenario that surrounded my purchases and my feelings. I did research, but apparently not enough (I didn't notice this thread). I agree that I would lose if I sue TiVo. I agree that they have plenty of weasel room. I'm just not super happy.
     
  7. Jan 4, 2008 #987 of 2401
    GiantsFan24

    GiantsFan24 New Member

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    Jan 3, 2008
    Makakilo,...
    Geez, some of you serial posters sure like to overreact to (more-or-less) innocuous comments. What's wrong with someone feeling like the cablecos move to SDV was unfair to TIVO S3/HD users? I know I did. When I bought my S3 a year ago, there was lots of big text saying "HD!"; no big text saying, "except if..." I was not aware that my cable provider was contemplating going SDV. And I don't know why I should have been expected to know that. Or how, for that matter, since they weren't publicizing it. That being said, I don't blame TIVO or TWC. I understand the business and technical decisions both made, and I look forward to the dongle, whenever it should arrive. In the meantime, I have to use the POS SA8300HDC DVR. And I gotta tell ya, that feels unfair!
     
  8. Jan 5, 2008 #988 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    If you don't want people to react to your comments then don't post :D. Alternatively, you can preface it with something like, "Look, I understand that the cable providers really have no alternatives for providing a lot more HD channels to using SDV, but on an emotional level, it feels as though I'm being cheated somehow. I know that it's not true, but I can't help feeling that way. That's all I wanted to say."

    Carefully reading jimhutchins' posts, he did kind of say that, so our responses were kind of redundant. He did respond to the responses, though, which kept them coming :).
     
  9. Jan 5, 2008 #989 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Thanks for you kind words. There is also another dynamic at work. I don't regularly post "yup, what he said" messages. If someone else is making the point well-enough, I won't chime in. Of course, human nature being what it is, there are far far far more people willing to ***** about big-company suppliers than people willing defend them, so generally, so generally when I do agree with complaints about a big-company supplier, others have already made the point as well as necessary, so you won't see me post.

    I haven't seen anything more than the initial projection, which I wouldn't count on.

    As you can see, I agree with you on this. They released a projection, which I don't see any good reason to rely on. The real problem is that some people are actually fostering their own expectations based on that projection. That's idiocy IMHO. You base expectations on firm and explicit promises, nothing less.

    Again, I totally agree.

    Agree again.

    Do you see, now, why I generally don't post when someone has already said what I feel needs to be said? :D
     
  10. Jan 5, 2008 #990 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Which is the whole point. Anyone expecting TiVo to support all services provided by the cable company simply didn't do their due diligence.
     
  11. Jan 5, 2008 #991 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    What do you expect, Bob? Some folks are simply unwilling to accept the reality and will continue beating this dead horse over and over again, condemning cable companies, condemning TiVo, etc. And other folks are willing to oblige them by posting objections to their repetitive tirades, when said condemnations contain something that they disagree with. So the thread will go on like that until people stop repeating the condemnations that have already been made earlier in the thread, and/or something actually does change, which is probably going to happen late this year.
     
  12. Jan 5, 2008 #992 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    I think Bob was pointing out the lack of any information indicating that SA was working on a resolution. He cannot point to information if what he's saying is that no information exists. :)
     
  13. Jan 5, 2008 #993 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    There isn't anything "wrong" with feelings. Let's turn it around: What's wrong with someone feeling like it wasn't unfair? Both are valid points; neither deserve an unrebutted soap-box.

    Are you suggesting that TiVo is the only device that has fine print? The whole point of advertising -- the "big text" -- is to highlight the positive attributes of the product. The disclaimers -- the "except if..."s -- are always less prominent, and often written in language that only a lawyer could understand. You want to see a real doozie? Check out your cell phone contract!

    That's really the best way of looking at it. :up:
     
  14. Jan 7, 2008 #994 of 2401
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    This is total horse pookey, and you need to let them know you know that. All CableCards are 2-way and have been since the very first one rolled off the line. CableCard 1.0 cards are just as capable of 2 way communications as any other, and Open Cable 2.0 specs have nothing to do with CableCards per se. They have to do with the hosts, not the cards, and no CableCard of any sort will allow a one-way host like the TiVo to handle SDV. Tell him in no uncewrtain terms he is full of $#!+, and he needs to learn something about his own business rather than submit packs of outright lies.

    The Open Cable spec, as I said, concerns hosts, not the CableCards. The S3 supports both S-cards (CableCard 1.0 spec) and M-cards (CableCard 2.0 spec), but only in single stream mode. The HD TiVO supportds M-cards in multistream mode. I have one in my HD Tivo, and it works just fine, receiveing any two simulataneous non-SDV channels. I'm on Time Warner San Antonio.

    The Dongle - which is a poor idea as allegedly prototyped - is supposed to be available for Motorola systems in Q2 this year, but that may just be a leak. Nothing has been said publicly about an SA solution, or if SA is even looking at a solution. This doesn't necessarily mean they aren't of course, just that they are better at keeping their mouths shut than Motorola.

    Open Cable 2.0 is not a ratified spec, so I'm not sure how to answer that, except that none of the various SDV implementations is currently supported in a consumer device. If you are on Time Warner, then your system is probably Scientific Atlanta / BigBand. Most Comcast systems (I believe) use Motorola, which is OCAP compliant and meets the currently suggested spec for Open Cable 2.0. SA systems do not.

    By the way, the C series of Scientific Atlanta STBs and DVRs use the same M-cards the TiVo does, and it is these most TWC systems are deploying for SDV right now. His comments concerning needing "2-way" cards is pure @#%@^.
     
  15. Jan 7, 2008 #995 of 2401
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    What, exactly, do you mean by "something". A firm committment to supporting the TiVo platform would be "something", and I can see that happening much more quickly than the end of the year. (By "TiVo platform", I of course mean a device which works with the S3 series of TiVos, not necesssarily a device dedicated to them.) An actual device sitting on the shelves would definitely be "something", and I can hope it will happen before the end of Q2. I fear, however, you might be right in estimating Q4, and maybe not then. Far stranger things have happend, however, and I'm going to keep my hopes up. An actual, reasonable, teeth-bared edict from the FCC would really be "something", but I wouldn't bet on end of the decade for that, let alone end of this year.
     
  16. Jan 7, 2008 #996 of 2401
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Ideally the FCC would have forced a reasonable and workable set of regulations regarding 2-way hosts on CableLabs and the CATV industry prior to 2006. That way TiVo could have designed and engineered an SDV capable box from the get-go. As it is, they've been forced into Open Cable 1.0 limitations with no way to receive CableLabs certification if they attempt an Open Cable 2.0 box.
     
  17. Jan 12, 2008 #997 of 2401
    MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    holy cow-

    maybe we can get a sticky at the top of the forum that says "cable is a monopoly-no it isn't" and then people can b*tch and bicker can smack them around all in one thread....

    i was away for a while and saw a few pages of posts new in this thread- thought maybe there was some info but after like the 10th "yes it is" "no it isn't" post i just kind of skimmed so i think that's all that transpired of late. Anything new really happening?

    I appreciate Bicker's opinion's (dont necessarily agree all the time) but this argument is getting old already.
     
  18. Jan 13, 2008 #998 of 2401
    KraziJoe

    KraziJoe What? Me Worry?

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    No it's not...:p
     
  19. Jan 15, 2008 #999 of 2401
    gatzke

    gatzke New Member

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    Dec 28, 2007
    Yes it is! I think that settles it...

    So I assume that since TWC is using SA boxes and cable cards in my area, I have no hope of seeing a dongle in Q2 (or actually in the field in Q4?). Good thing I am leaving the country for half a year or more...

    This makes me want to find a way to steal HD cable, since they can't supply what I am paying for. I know they call most of the SDV HD channels "Bonus" so I am not entitled. I know they have small print about limitations on cable card users. I am paying for the HD tier but only get 75% of the channels. I think this stinks, but when has the cable company not screwed its customers?

    The Tivo integrates well with my Beyond TV + Hauppage PVR 500 card, playing SD videos just fine on the Tivo HD. I hope to try out a HD receiver (HD Homerun) to get clear QAM cable onto the PC as well. Now if I could just get some way to grab SDV into a clean mpeg2 file somewhere...
     
  20. pmiranda

    pmiranda New Member

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    Feb 12, 2003
    Austin, TX
    A little bird told me SA is not as far behind as you fear, but like all other things TW/SA/TiVo, I'll believe it when I see it.

    I'm curious exactly what steps you have to do to get BeyondTV programs into TiVo? Can you just drag the files into "My TiVo Recordings" or do you have to do some manual processing in between? I was thinking about buying BeyondTV and an IR blaster so I can get SDV off a cableco settop but I didn't want to waste money on something that was a pain to use with the SDV dongle "on the way".
     

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