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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Jul 18, 2007 #81 of 2401
    LoREvanescence

    LoREvanescence Always Autocorrected

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    Salem, MA
    So, if 80 plus percent off all channels go to SDV and are unable to be tuned in via CableCards devices and Tivo where does that leave us? I thought the whole point of the cable card was to make available all channels minus vod / paper view to third party devices with out the need of a cable box? Doesn't this fly in the face of what the FCC ruled?

    I just spent a lot of money on a Series 3 and I would not be very happy if in a couple of months I can get only a hand full of networks, and those networks being locals which are available with out a cable card and mapping by just plugging into the cable system.


    Where does that leave us Tivo users if were were to be shut out? Is there anything we can do to put up a fight or get a work aroung to get are third party devices compadible?
     
  2. Jul 18, 2007 #82 of 2401
    cwoody222

    cwoody222 Active Member

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    Buffalo, NY
    There is no way that in "a couple of months" you will only get a "handful of networks".

    Calm down.

    Will the S3 work with SDV? No. Does SDV suck? Yes. Will Cable companies continue to explore it? Yes.

    Will any of this happen quickly? No.
     
  3. Jul 18, 2007 #83 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Tampa, FL
    Yes, if it happens and if there is no workaround, then yes we are left holding the bag, personally I don't think it'll come to that.

    But just to make sure, I filled a complaint with the FCC because I am not able to watch a SDV channel with my Series3. TiVo has also submitted comments to the FCC, and I believe the FCC will require CableLabs to certify two-way devices without the OCAP requirement, but maybe it's just wishful thinking. Either way, in the meantime I will enjoy my Series3.
     
  4. Jul 18, 2007 #84 of 2401
    LoREvanescence

    LoREvanescence Always Autocorrected

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    Jun 19, 2007
    Salem, MA
    This is rather interesting. I didn't know a CableCard 1.0 was capable of two way communication. If they are, is there anyway tivo could be updated to accept SDV?

    http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html
     
  5. Jul 18, 2007 #85 of 2401
    sfhub

    sfhub Active Member

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    For Comcast, I think it is a safe assumption that limited basic will have analog versions for a longer period of time but extended basic analog could be dropped in favor of the digital versions earlier. This could potentially relieve some pressure to go to SDV by making more bandwidth available to the operator. The FCC did however dangle waivers from the July 1st CC deadline if an operator had gone all digital, so I depending on how the political winds blow, they could be friend or foe for folks who want or expect analog or partial analog to stay longer.

    I think it is reasonable to believe the FCC at some point would step in and prevent SDV of the big 5 networks (and the networks themselves could protest via their contract renewal terms)

    That is however slightly different than some of the earlier discussion which centered on whether there were absolutely no reasons why a cable company might want to put the locals on SDV (which included more than the big 5) and instead focuses on whether the cable company would be prevented from doing so. Whether you are for or against SDV of all digital channels, I think it is a good idea to understand all the pros and cons from different perspectives and come up with counter arguments to support your position, and that information is hopefully what we would eventually end up with on this thread. It is not about chicken little, at least not from my perspective.

    I think it is a safe assumption that any STB that is capable of VOD is capable of SDV via minor firmware update. The mechanisms are very similar.
     
  6. Jul 18, 2007 #86 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Tampa, FL
  7. Jul 18, 2007 #87 of 2401
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    The FCC Chairman's current proposal is for dual must carry, but relief from that for systems that go all digital.

    The FCC appears interested in pushing all digital, contemplating future two way CC devices, but talks little about legacy one way CC devices.
     
  8. Jul 18, 2007 #88 of 2401
    sfhub

    sfhub Active Member

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    There are 2 modes of operation for 2-way CableCARD.

    One is OOB mode. In this mode, the 2-way functionality is split between the CableCARD and the Host device. The logical full-duplex modem is a function of the CableCARD (ie it processes, demultiplexes, multiplexes, and distributes all the messages) but it requires a special channel to circuitry on the host that handles RF processing and QPSK modulation/demodulation. If that low-level circuitry does not exist on the Host device, the CableCARD will not be able to provide 2-way services in this mode.

    2nd is DSG (Docsis Set-Top Gateway) mode. Here the Host device provides the complete high speed modem implementation and is responsible for the full communications. Any "2-way" information from the CableCARD will travel across the HOST/POD interface.

    People have said the TiVo S3 host device does not include the support mechanisms needed on the host device to support either of these methods. People have also theorized that a Docsis modem could added via USB and the TiVo software configured to present it in DSG mode to the CableCARD. People have also theorized that another mode of operation might be created to address SDV where the DSG mechanism is replaced with an IP tunnel through the ethernet port.
     
  9. Jul 18, 2007 #89 of 2401
    Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    San Diego
    Yeah, what sfhub said. :)

    The simplest answer is that no it's not possible for the S3 to become a 2-way device; it lacks the hardware and the licensing. There is the possibility of some sort of workaround for SDV only...the NCTA and TiVo have hinted to Congress that they are trying to come up with a fix for this. No guarantees of course.
     
  10. Jul 18, 2007 #90 of 2401
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Carmel...
    Here is how I look at the bandwidth and SDV issue. I pretty much get all the HD content I could want (with the one possible exception of no ABC) from my local Comcast now. Getting rid of analog will allow a 200% increase in available digital bandwidth. If Comcast applied that extra bandwidth to SDV while keeping their current lineup as is they could keep me happy as a cable card user and still offer the dozens of new HD stations they seem to want in the future.

    They do not make any money from the analog only customers anyway. The profit they make from me and other full-boat subscribers like me would more than pay for the set top boxes needed for all the little old ladies with old TVs they might be required to support on lifeline service. They should just accelerate the demise of analog and the bandwidth issue becomes less important.
     
  11. Jul 19, 2007 #91 of 2401
    SugarBowl

    SugarBowl Member

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    But of course your monthly rate would go up every year as they added these new channels that you can't watch.

    They'll probably even raise the cablecard rental rate.
     
  12. Jul 22, 2007 #92 of 2401
    VinceA

    VinceA New Member

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    I didn't see it mentioned here but Cablevision in the NYC metro area has been using SDV on their systems. Right now it's limited to bringing the international channels to users but their looking at it as the best use of the bandwidth . So, I'm hoping that TiVo comes up with something before something I want gets relegated to the SDV 'shadow zone'.
     
  13. Jul 22, 2007 #93 of 2401
    FoxFireX

    FoxFireX New Member

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    San Antonio, TX
    If you guys are still looking to keep the list of affected channels and areas updated, chow down on this for Time Warner Cable, San Antonio, TX:

    http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAntonio/Products/Cable/cablecard/notwithcablecard.html

    I talked to a customer service guy who actually knew a lot about the whole SDV setup, and he told me that 125 (ESPN2 HD) was also switched, and therefore unavailable. He actually thought that the S3 might support the v2.0 CCs that have quietly entered their hardware stream, but it looks like that was wrong (at least as far as working with SDV goes). Here's hoping there's a solution to be had somewhere.
     
  14. Jul 22, 2007 #94 of 2401
    bdraw

    bdraw Member

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    Thanks FoxFireX,
    It looks like Time Warner/Bright House Networks (loosely affiliated) are the SDV leaders and Texas is the worst.
     
  15. Jul 22, 2007 #95 of 2401
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    Are they not using SDV for all those Voom(?) HD channels they are adding?
     
  16. Jul 22, 2007 #96 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    No. They are not.
     
  17. Jul 23, 2007 #97 of 2401
    VinceA

    VinceA New Member

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    Thank God for that. I was happy when I saw Wilt mention that on the CV mailing list. I'm looking forward to seeing Monsters HD when I finally get some sort of HD DVR.
     
  18. Jul 24, 2007 #98 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    New York
    Monsters HD is pretty good...

    Are you referring to the Yahoo! CV mailing list?
     
  19. Jul 24, 2007 #99 of 2401
    VinceA

    VinceA New Member

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    Yes, that's the mailing list I'm referencing.
     
  20. Jul 24, 2007 #100 of 2401
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    .worcester.m...
    After a few days of getting the 404 errors reported to me I just put a redirect in my .htaccess file to make the bad URL work so I wouldn't see the errors in my reports. ;-)

    Oh, and this may be of interest.
     

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