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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Dec 7, 2007 #781 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    The exact same thing applies to any type of yield management scheme. Yield management is used by many consumer-facing service industries. The most well-known is the practice of over-booking on airlines. So there you are on vacation with little Jenny and little Bobby and you get to the airport a good hour before the flight, but alas, since you got these incredibly low fares you weren't able to reserve seats and there aren't enough seats left for all of you because more folks checked in for the flight than forecast. So you sit it out, perhaps until the next day, even though Jenny might miss her first day back to school after vacation. That's life.
     
  2. Dec 7, 2007 #782 of 2401
    pmiranda

    pmiranda New Member

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    If you plan a family vacation and don't get reserved seats, I think you deserve to listen to a screaming 2 year old for a day.

    As for SDV, I think TiVo could actually behave better than the cableco boxes. As I'm sure somebody already pointed out months ago here, TiVo already has the "I want to record something on another channel, can I change it?" popup, so it could just as easily add a "This channel is going to be dropped in 5 minutes due to inactivity" popup.
    I agree with the poster that said TiVo suggestions shouldn't greatly change "viewing" patterns for SDV. I find it's pretty rare that TiVo suggests channels that I haven't already been watching.
    TiVo suggestions could even help the SDV problem... If you've got a cableco settop or DVR, it's going to stay on the last active channel until the SDV lease expires. TiVo is likely to find something you'd actually want to watch on other channels pretty often during prime viewing hours, so it will probably burn out a whole SDV channel leave way less often than the cableco boxes.
     
  3. Dec 7, 2007 #783 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    That's why I think TiVo's got to agree to either limit or bias suggestions towards non-SDV channels as much as possible.
     
  4. Dec 8, 2007 #784 of 2401
    jcaudle

    jcaudle Member

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    Scientific Atlanta does make cable modems. They are availible from Cox here in Fairfax, Va.
     
  5. Dec 9, 2007 #785 of 2401
    jimhutchins

    jimhutchins New Member

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    Bright House Indiana launched five new HD Channels on November 26, 2007 (http://indiana.mybrighthouse.com/products_and_pricing/digital_cable/programming/default.aspx). Unfortunately, according to Pam in customer service, all of the new channels require a two-way cable card so that the receiver can tell Bright House to switch to them. Though she didn't mention SDV, it seems that they've headed down that path.

    • CNN-HD (738) - Simulcast of CNN analog
    • History Channel-HD (755) - Simulcast of History Channel analog
    • National Geographic-HD (767) - Simulcast of National Geographic analog
    • HGTV-HD (770) - Simulcast of HGTV analog
    • MHD-HD (738) - Music:High Definition with a mix music programming from MTV, VH1 and CMT
     
  6. Dec 9, 2007 #786 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Huh. I thought that MHD was an MTV product. Looking at MHD's page it's true. Apparently CMT and VH1 are members of the "MTV Music Group". Though I occasionally flip through MHD, I hadn't paid much attention to what airs on it.

    Again, there's no such thing as a "two way CableCARD"--CableCARDs do not contain RF transmitters and receivers and use functions in the host device to actually receive communications from the network and to optionally talk back to it. Until we get the tuning resolver, SDV requires a host device with bidirectional communications and OCAP.

    Overall, not a very interesting set of additions from Brighthouse.
     
  7. Dec 9, 2007 #787 of 2401
    XBR

    XBR New Member

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    Actually, the CableCARD module itself has been capable of two-way communications since first release. It's the host implementation (hardware and/or software) that kneecaps two-way.
     
  8. Dec 9, 2007 #788 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Huh? That's what I was trying to say--was I somehow unclear? There are no bidirectional CableCARDs, even for use in devices which are capable of bidirectional communication, just bidirectional communications implemented (or not) in the host device. I'd guess that it's pretty much always been the hardware that's prevented bidirectional communications--I doubt that anyone has put an OOB transmitter in a CableCARD device while omitting firmware to use it.
     
  9. Dec 9, 2007 #789 of 2401
    XBR

    XBR New Member

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    Yes, you were unclear--to me at least, which is the reason for my post. All conforming CableCARDs are inherently capable of supporting two-way communications--it's the host implementation that determines whether it will happen or not--for example: http://www.cablelabs.com/news/pr/2005/05_pr_samsung_082405.html.

    If this is what you're trying to say, then I agree.
     
  10. Dec 9, 2007 #790 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    I think that it's actually what I did say; I'm sorry that you didn't understand me. Hopefully the message wasn't as unclear to anyone else. Note that I said that CableCARDs "use functions in the host device to actually receive communications from the network and to optionally talk back to it". (Though it's more that software running in the host device might talk back to the network using the CableCARD as an intermediary; in their primary decryption/encryption function, CableCARDs have no need to speak back to the network).

    Let's drop it. If anyone else failed to get my original point (that bidirectionality is an attribute of the host device and not of the CableCARD) they've gotten it now.
     
  11. Dec 10, 2007 #791 of 2401
    ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    MIke, people get hung up on your very first statement of "there are no such things as two-way CableCARDs." It sounds like you are saying that none will support two-way comm.
     
  12. Dec 10, 2007 #792 of 2401
    Luke M

    Luke M Member

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    Are CableCards involved at all in upstream communications?
     
  13. Dec 10, 2007 #793 of 2401
    SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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    Not with TiVo. TiVo has no upstream communications capability. The Tuning Resolver will provide this capability.
     
  14. Dec 10, 2007 #794 of 2401
    Luke M

    Luke M Member

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    I know, but what about two-way CableCard devices?
     
  15. Dec 10, 2007 #795 of 2401
    SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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    So for a two way host like perhaps the upcoming Samsung TV with OCAP, upstream communications will be enabled. I personally dont know if the cablecard will originate any communications independently or instead provide a 'standard' hardware interface for allowing the OCAP code stack to originate the communications. Perhaps Mike will have more info as I believe he as read a good bit of the specs.
     
  16. Dec 10, 2007 #796 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Yes, they are, but only in that the proprietary on-the-wire protocols are encapsulated in the CableCARD. When the host needs to send a message back to the network, it gives it to the CableCARD, which dresses it up appropriately and then passes it back to the host to actually be transmitted.

    CableCARDs offer a set of services to the to the host device, and the host device offers a set of services to them.

    EDIT: I've been trying to find a discussion of the CableCARD Host/Card relationship that's less technical than ANSI/SCTE-28, which is pretty damned technical; I haven't found anything so far. On PDF page 25 of ANSI/SCTE-28 there's a diagram of one scenario for two-way communications (the other involves a built-in mini-DOCSIS modem and something called the DOCSIS Set-top Gateway, or DSG, which is diagrams and "explained" on the pages following. It's a little hairy and built on references to other standards docs.
     
  17. Dec 10, 2007 #797 of 2401
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    I think I can come up with a bad analogy. :D

    Say you're you want to have a conversation with someone who only speaks Spanish, but you don't speak Spanish. So you go out and buy a Spanish to English, English to Spanish dictionary. It comes with instructions on how to use it to translate conversations when talking on a phone.

    You then call the person on the phone and converse with that person using the dictionary to translate what you want to say into Spanish and the response back into English.

    One day you call the person, but find your mouth piece on the phone is broken so all you can do is listen, but you can't talk.


    In my bad example, the dictionary is the cableCARD device, the instructions are the cableCARD spec, the working phone is a 2-way compatible host device and the broken phone is a 1-way compatible device.

    This is an overly simplistic example, but the point I hope I'm getting across is that a dictionary (cableCARD) is neither a one way nor a two way device. It's just a tool used in communicating, but the phone (host) is the actual device that is one or two way. The instructions (cableCARD spec) can either be version 1.0 which states you can use broken phones while talking, but doesn't give you instructions on how to use working phones or 2.0 which states only working phones can be used with the dictionary (cableCARD).

    Oh and the dongle, would be a fix for the broken phone mouthpiece. :)
     
  18. Dec 12, 2007 #798 of 2401
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    What? Nonsense! If the TiVo thinks you might enjoy something, it should record it. That's the whole point of having suggestions. The medium over which it is delivered is irrelevant.
     
  19. Dec 12, 2007 #799 of 2401
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    Your numbers are off a bit. 100 QAM streams will deliver a lot more than 169 channels. They could deliver about 200 HD channels and 100 SD channels, or more likley at this point something like 100 HD channels and 350 SD channels per node. Most CATV providers havea target of 500 lit homes per fiber node, which would be about 1200 or so tuners (total, not active). Try re-running your analysis with those numbers.

    What? A channel request does not block a QAM stream. It blocks a channel.

    They have data. How good it is, I can't testify personally, but I suspect it's good.

    They do. It's one of the pieces of data the TiVo unit sends back to TiVo, Inc.

    While TiVos produce more effective viewing time, I doubt they affect the prime-time viewing patterns much, at all. Blocking during off-prime time is much less likely.

    During prime time, I expect it is very much like human useage; just an increased number of apparent humans. Outside prime time I suspect it might have a very significant impact on the mix of channels broadcast in an SDV system.
     
  20. Dec 13, 2007 #800 of 2401
    bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Because that's what fits within the SDV model. Service providers should be allowed to block any device that is designed in such a way as it contributes to undercutting the SDV model itself. If the service providers see unrestricted Suggestions as a feature that undercuts the SDV model itself, a minor change to how Suggestions work is appropriate to secure good-faith cooperation between service providers and TiVo. TiVo isn't the center of the world. None of TiVo's subscribers are the center of the world. Mass-market service providers provide service to a customer base, not to just one customer, and it is perfectly normal to impose service delivery constraints that contribute to an efficient mass-market service delivery model.
     

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