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SDV FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bdraw, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. Nov 27, 2007 #661 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    This announcement is great news, and if it works properly, I will have no hesitation in recommending TiVo to everyone with cable.

    I have a question, and I really hope that no one responds with snide/sarcastic/insulting comments. I read the release, but I don''t see where it states that the cable companies will be providing the adapter. Can someone point me to where it says this?

    Thanks!

    EDIT: If you look at all the players involved in the process, it includes SA and Motorola, the two largest manufacturers, of consumer and head end equipment, BigBand Networks, and C-COR, who do SDV technology. It sounds like this adapter has the chance of working like cable modems do. Once the devices are certified, by Cablelabs, you can probably pick one up at you local Best Buy. I also think that the adapters will be product specific. For example, TiVo's dongle won't work on my Sony TV.

    Link to announcement: http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=240599
     
  2. Nov 27, 2007 #662 of 2401
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    You're just reading the wrong release.

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/s...11-26-2007/0004711019&EDATE=#linktopagebottom

     
  3. Nov 27, 2007 #663 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    The only downside I see to this solution is that I'm guessing that you will need to have two feeds for the TiVo: One for the tuners, and one for the upstream communications from the dongle. This means that customers with marginal cable signals might drop to levels below the threshold of maintaining a reliable signal to the tuners. Or am I totally off base, and is there another way to communicate without having to split the cable feed?
     
  4. Nov 27, 2007 #664 of 2401
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    The cable will connect through the USB dongle; they'd likely use a tap in the dongle for the DOCSIS-compliant communications with the headend. And if there were any concerns about signal level they could be addressed in the dongle.
     
  5. Nov 27, 2007 #665 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Wow. The articles certainly read differently. I would prefer a solution that I could purchase from TiVo, but if it works, then I'll be happy. Thanks for the info.

    Hopefully, the dongle will be able to get enough juice from the USB connectors so that an external power supply won't be necessary.
     
  6. Nov 27, 2007 #666 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    This is the way that I picture it:
    Code:
                          Coax In
                        (from wall)
                             |
                       +-----+-----+
                       |           |
                       |  Tuning   |
             +---USB---+ Resolver  |
             |         |           |
             |         +-----+-----+
             |               |
             |            Coax Out
             |               |
             |               |
         +---+---------------+-------------------+
         |                                       |
         |         UDCR Host (like TiVo)         |
         |                                       |
         +---------------------------------------+
    The dongle itself would be a small device with a coax connector on one end, and short coax and USB cables coming out of it. Of course, it could have coax connectors on two sides (in and out) and a female USB jack, allowing cables of arbitrary length to be used, but building in cables would discourage attempt to place it far away.

    Good. I'd been thinking something along those lines only more complex. But...KISS. The exchange could be as simple as:
    Dongle-To-Network: I'd like to tune channel XXX using CableCARD nnnnnnnn.

    Network-To-Dongle: Channel XXX is on QAM 256 frequency fff as program ppp, guaranteed for 10,800 seconds.
    At the end of the lease, the dongle could ask the UDCR Host (i.e., TiVo) whether to renew, and if it said "yes", the original request could be repeated to obtain a new "lease". At any time during the lease, TiVo could send a message to explicitly relinquish its hold on the channel (if say, it completed a recording of an SDV channel on the "unviewed" tuner).
     
  7. Nov 27, 2007 #667 of 2401
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Jan 6, 2000
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    Yes, based on what Doug described, that's what my diagram was attempting to illustrate. I deleted it to avoid (more) embarrassment...
     
  8. Nov 27, 2007 #668 of 2401
    pmiranda

    pmiranda New Member

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    Feb 12, 2003
    Austin, TX
    Business-wise, I'd think the cablecos would want to enable VOD and IPPV with it, which would require software in the TiVo to enable it, unless the dongle gets very expensive. I'd be very surprised if we get anything more than basic SDV support at launch in any case.
     
  9. Nov 27, 2007 #669 of 2401
    vstone

    vstone New Member

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    They'll just have to turn up the signal level out at the pole and replace any marginal signal splitters in the house with professional ones.
     
  10. Nov 27, 2007 #670 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Yeah, I'm not counting on that VOD and IPPV support either, though it'd be cool.

    CableLabs already developed a scheme for generalized interactive services that was included in the original POD and POD Host specs (ere the CEA came up with the "CableCARD" label). They included predefined service APIs to support the "Holy Trinity" of interactive services IPG, IPPV and VOD, with the ability to support other services through downloaded HTML forms. It wasn't open ended enough to please the cable providers, who opted to pass on using it in favor of finishing the development of OCAP, which decommitted support for OOB backchannel communication. They hadn't defined multi-stream support, so it's just as well, though it would have been nice if they'd required implementation of the backchannel, even though nobody was going to make any major use of it. Having it to support automated installation of CableCARDs would have been enough reason, to my mind. How much could it have added to the cost of DCR products even at the time?

    EDIT: Ha! I thought that they'd long eradicated all online hints of the API for generic IPPV, VOD and HTML-based interactive service support that was in the original CableLabs POD specs, but the 2004 version of ANSI/SCTE 28 features them. Of particular interest is the Application Interface, documented beginning at PDF page 61.
     
  11. Nov 27, 2007 #671 of 2401
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    CableLabs is the research group founded by the cable providers. So what you're saying is that the cable companies own research group came up with a simple method for 2-way communications as part of the cableCARD standard, but it was shot down in favor of OCAP?

    That's frustrating on so many levels, especially considering very few CEA want to support OCAP.
     
  12. Nov 27, 2007 #672 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Mmmmmm, "simple" is a relative word. It was a hell of a lot simpler than frickin' OCAP and could have been supported on a far cheaper hardware platform. (OCAP requires a platform capable of running a virtual machine for a profile of Java :rolleyes:).

    10+ years ago, I saw a demonstration to the networking hardware development group that I was working in of a "web server on a chip". It was couple of ICs, a hand full of resistors, an LED, a toggle switch and an RJ45 header mounted on a 2" square breadboard, powered by a AA battery. We connected it to a computer in the conference room and viewed and navigated a set of web pages served by code running on this tiny board. It was designed to add remote cofiguration capabilities to a product (in addition to the SNMP stuff we were working on) with about a $12 addition to the BOM. Remember--that was 10 or 12 years back. Little more than this would be required in a host to support what they were talking about and it'd be somewhat less expensive now :).
     
  13. Nov 28, 2007 #673 of 2401
    Surrealone

    Surrealone TiVoOnThEmInD

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    Dec 8, 2006
    Ok I live in Orange County Ca and sent a letter to COX cable and this is the reply..


    Hello

    Thank you for your reply.

    Currently most devices with CableCARD's are not two way capable. This
    means that they will not be able to get the new channels that will be
    deployed with the Switched Digital Video. This change will occur next
    year, but already there are channels in the upgrade areas that
    CableCARD's will not be able to receive. It looks like you are in one of
    the areas that have been upgraded.

    The are the channels that a CableCARD can get:

    A&E HD
    KCAL HD
    MOJO

    Cinemax HD
    KCBS HD
    Nat Geo HD

    ESPN 2 HD
    KCOP HD
    NBC Universal HD

    ESPN HD
    KNBC HD
    Showtime HD

    FSN HD
    KOCE HD
    Starz HD

    HBO HD
    KTLA HD
    TBS HD

    HD Theater
    KTTV HD
    TNT HD

    KABC HD
    MHD

    In 2008 there will be a new series of CableCARD devices available for
    purchase that will be know as iDCR (interactive Digital Cable Ready).
    These devices will be two-way and will be able to tune channels that are
    switched.

    We hope that we have been able to provide you with the information you
    requested. If we have not, or if we can be of any additional service to
    you, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

    Sincerely,
    Brad
    SDCCC
     
  14. Nov 28, 2007 #674 of 2401
    vstone

    vstone New Member

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    :)iDCR AKA International Drift Championship Racing or Infectious Diseases in Corrections Report

    Actually, for more info go to: http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=23972 (circa 2004)

    I have seen references to the Samsung TV mentioned in the article, but had never heard of iDCR.

    edit: a search for iDCR can find a reference to a 2007 CEA announcement from Panasonic and Comcast about iDCR plasmas to become available in 2008.
     
  15. Nov 28, 2007 #675 of 2401
    SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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  16. Nov 28, 2007 #676 of 2401
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

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    Actually I think that it's cool. I only wonder how dynamic the switch between "TiVo Mode" and "Cable Mode" will be, but I'd love to have a TiVo that I could switch temporarily to "Cable Mode" to use the subscription VOD channels, particularly now that some HD ones are starting to appear (my Cox system just added Starz On Demand HD). Access to IPPV and Pay VOD wouldn't hurt either.
     
  17. Nov 28, 2007 #677 of 2401
    SCSIRAID

    SCSIRAID Active Member

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    Agree. I think they did the right thing. The dual mode keeps everyone happy. Continuing to argue about DCR+ would have not likely gotten them anywhere and delayed the inevitable.
     
  18. Nov 28, 2007 #678 of 2401
    morac

    morac Cat God

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  19. Nov 28, 2007 #679 of 2401
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    That's correct.
     
  20. Nov 29, 2007 #680 of 2401
    davidtieman

    davidtieman New Member

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    I wish they could get these out sooner than 6 months from now. Cox here in Gainesville, Florida have added 5-6 new HD channels and are planning on a few more before the year end. I can't pick these up on my Tivo and really hate to go back to the cable company DVR. But i guess i can cancel my tivo service until then and live with the cable dvr if i have to. It realy would not bother me as much but one of the channels they messed with was HD Discovery Theater, one of my favorite HD channels.
     

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