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Romio plus and 4 mini's - wiring suggestions please!

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by marklyn, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. marklyn

    marklyn Member

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    Jan 21, 2002
    Austin
    Hmmm. Ok, I'll move it but I did hear/read recently that it was supposed to be better to split the coax coming in, 1 going to your cable modem and the other going to another splitter for your network. I can't find the info I found on this but I understood it to be better for your LAN network. Course, splitters are cheap enough that I could try out both ways.
    Anyone have any experience for this question?
     
  2. marklyn

    marklyn Member

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    Jan 21, 2002
    Austin
    Ohhh, I missed that part. How would I know ahead of time that my Time Warner in Austin would require me to have a tuning adapter. Is this likely something I can call their drones and ask (I'd rather take a beating though)?
     
  3. BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    Mar 21, 2004
    I'm almost positive you'll need a TA. I believe they're free. I guess you would request it when you order the cablecard/service. Not sure if they give them automatically with cablecards or not.

    Ah, good point. But yeah, you can try it both ways. If a 6-way splitter would weaken the internet signal too much, you can go your way.
     
  4. lgnad

    lgnad Pantless Mofo

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    Feb 14, 2013
    Massachusetts
    Well, We don't care about the cable tv signal strength at the minis. They are pulling from/through the ROAMio via the Moca network.

    Cable companies usually do the layout I suggested, so that the cable modem gets plenty of signal strength. Putting it on a six way sounds like a recipe for disaster.

    If the signal strength to the ROAMio is a concern, I'd consider:
    Feed from cable - POE filter - three way splitter, with the modem on one leg, the ROAMio on the 2nd, and a four way splitter going to the minis on the 3rd.

    (Very very) Occasionally the Moca signal back-feeding into cable modems messes up the networking speeds, if so a 2nd filter on its leg might be needed.

    Actually, since I can't find a five-way splitter after a quick search, I guess that's the way to go. Lol Suprised no one pointed out that error on my part! :D
     
  5. BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    Mar 21, 2004
    You're right, this would be better since the Minis are only getting moca. Better still since the Roamio leg would be split again because of the TA.

    marklyn, forget what I said earlier. This is a way better plan. Go with this. Lol.
     
  6. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    You misunderstand the purpose of the poe filter. It is not normally used to isolate the MoCA network from your own coax network, it is used to isolate and prevent feedback between your home coax network (all segments) and the external cable company network.

    MoCa operates on a frequency that shouldn't interfere with anything in your home... however, it CAN cause feedback (reflections, etc) when it hits the cable company provider equipment outside of your home. Not using one also opens up the potential that if you are on a common coaxial segment outside of the home, others could pick up and access your MoCA network.
     
  7. rcase13

    rcase13 New Member

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    Sep 1, 2013
    This thread has inspired me to buy another NETGEAR GS108 switch and isolate my TiVo network to it. I don't use MoCa. The reason why is Ethernet is cleaner to me.

    In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?
     
  8. BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    Mar 21, 2004
    Not needed. All Roamio-to-Mini communications can be over coax. That's the benefit of a moca network.
     
  9. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    How are you isolating it exactly? If you trunk that new switch back to the other switch in order for internet access to work you really haven't isolated anything unless you've built a new VLAN for the TiVo network.
     
  10. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    You can physically isolate it. Any of the TiVos communicating on that segment will not go through the router. it will only go through the router to go to/from the internet or to get to another device on the network on a different segment. Since the majority of the high bandwidth data is between the TiVos, it isolates that traffic to that physical segment.

    So for intstance I have an Asus router with four ports. Each of those four ports goes to a five or 8 port switch. And that forms the four segment sof my network. Now each of those switches have other siwtches connected to it. But any traffic on those four switches will stay on that network segment. Unless it traffic goes to/from the internet which will go through the switch in the router or a device in one segment communicates with a device on a different segment.

    So I could have a pair of PCs on each segment and each pair of PCs could concurrently transfer content at 900Mb/s+ speeds between each other because the traffic on each segment will not go through the router.

    Several years ago I had to set up my network this way because I have so many devices on it that I started having issues. It was either do this or purchase manageable gear. So I chose the soltuion that dd not cost me any extra money. And it has worked out very well with all the data I have going back and forth between devices.
     
  11. pautler

    pautler Member

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    Oct 10, 2013
    It sounds like you're all set and you're going with MOCA, but keep in mind that an ethernet *switch* is different from an ethernet *hub* in that the traffic is only sent out the ports that need it (whereas a *hub* is a repeater that sends all traffic out all ports). Everything is switches these days.

    For example, if you have an 5port switch with connections as follows:
    port1 - Roamio
    port2 - Mini1
    port3 - Mini2
    port4 - PC
    port5 - Uplink to Internet and/or other switches

    Mini1 can be streaming from the Roamio and that traffic will only show up on ports 1 & 2. At the same time, Mini2 can be streaming from the Roamio and that traffic will only show up on ports 1 & 3. Of course, as you can see there, both of those streams will be present on port 1... but bandwidth is really not a concern at all since you would likely have a 100Mbps or 1Gbps switch. While both of those Minis are streaming from the Roamio, your PC can be sending traffic to/from the Internet, and that traffic will only be seen on ports 4 & 5 (and neither of those ports will see any of the traffic from the streaming sessions between the Roamio and the Minis.

    Back in the old days of ethernet hubs, all traffic was flooded out all ports. But switches are smart enough to know which devices are connected to which ports, and they only send the traffic out the ports that need it.

    -Joe
     
  12. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    I'm quite proficient in networking, and yes, if you put all the TiVo devices on a separate data switch then you've created a new physical segment to isolate the TiVo traffic. From a broadcast domain perspective though you still have both switches in one broadcast segment or VLAN.... in most production networks, broadcasts are actually a major source of 'network crawl' once a segment grows into a large number of devices. All unicast traffic will go through the specific network ports that the devices are attached to, but all broadcasts (and multicasts) will go through the entire physical switch network, regardless of how many switches you've connected together.

    Also, a decent gigabit ethernet switch (managed or otherwise) should have more than enough throughput to handle a few TiVos streaming as well as all of the other local network traffic.

    I guess if you actually experience problems then moving some of the gear to a new network segment would be a good first step, although I would concentrate on other things that are "always on" such as CCTV cameras before worrying about TiVos that might only spend a few hours a day pushing network traffic.
     
  13. pautler

    pautler Member

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    Oct 10, 2013
    Yes, but "large" in that case is many hundreds of devices.

    And, just a point of clarification (as I'm sure you know), the devices don't need to be connected to different switches in order to isolate the traffic, just different switch ports.

    -Joe
     
  14. marklyn

    marklyn Member

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    Jan 21, 2002
    Austin
    I'm going to order my Roamio this week and could use some advice on purchasing a POE filter + 2 way splitter + 3 way splitter + 4 way splitter. I've found these items on ebay but I'm not seeing enough description to know if the frequency range is correct. 1000 Mhz for POE filter (or more) and 2500 Mhz for splitters.

    I'd appreciate some advice what to buy and any web links. I don't mind spending a couple of bucks extra if what I'm getting is higher quality.

    would the 2, 3 & 4 way splitters on this page be good, average, bad? http://stores.ebay.com/Cmple/_i.html?_nkw=splitter&submit=Search&_sid=34741409
    Is there a particular brand of splitters that is better?
     
  15. pshivers

    pshivers Retired!

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    Nov 4, 2013
    Alhambra, CA
    I've used the following splitters from Antronix with very good results, the rating is to 1002 mHz but that is really not a concern for MoCA as it is designed to work with these type of splitters that are commonly used by the major Cable Companies.

    CMC2002H 2-Way Splitter
    CMC2003H 3-Way Splitter
    CMC2004H 4-Way Splitter

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...ix splitter&sprefix=Antronix+splitter,aps,318

    The $9 POE MoCA filter from Tivo works just fine.

    One thing I learned while getting my own MoCA network running over the past two months was to not overthink things, MoCa is designed to work with the existing coax in 90% of America's homes!

    The only real gotcha I ran into was a powered amplifier (Charter Installed) in the middle of my home coax wiring that was blocking the MoCA signal from getting to two of my bedrooms, replaced it with with one of the 2-way splitters mentioned above and all was well! I also had two separate drops coming into my house from the cable company, one for the Main TV and Internet/Telephone and the other for the bedrooms and Man Cave. This was an attempt to solve a tuning problem on my Tivo Roamio Pro Charter did that did not make a difference. I combined everything into a single drop so that my MoCA network was no longer going all the way out to the pole and back to connect to all my MoCA devices (makes for a flaky MoCA network connection doing that!). Once I was on one drop I installed the POE MoCA filter at that drop. In the future I may use the 2nd leftover drop for just my Internet and Telephone connections, but I'll have to install a new coax home run to them bypassing the Main TV coax.

    Charter did a lot of run and split coax runs in my home instead of doing full home runs to each room from the utility box. My 3 bedroom coax run has a total of 3 splitters inline before it finally gets to the last bedroom! I may make it a summer project to make new home coax runs to all rooms from the cable utility box just because it would make me feel better, my MoCA network is working great as is so there is no "Real" reason to change it at this time!

    Good luck with your install, I think you will find it is very close to simple "Plug n' Play" with what I have read about your own infrastructure...
     

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