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Romario OTA and Mini questions.

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Johakyle, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:41 PM.

  1. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    So I have a question with some setup issues I am running into. I have an outdoor antenna that runs into my house to a splitter. Those go to both my living rooms. One has the Roamio OTA and other has the mini. I also have charter internet running a cable into my house(I used to have DIRECTV so they had to run another cable into my laundry room for internet) so I have that cable going up to my office where my router is. I am unable to move my router from my office as I work from home and need to be hard wired. The cable line with my internet connection and the splitter with the antenna to the tv connections are both in the same room. Am I able to setup a moca network with my setup? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    Both antenna coax and the router needs to be able to reach a MoCA adapter.
    If you wish to connect Roamio OTA to MoCA, it needs an adapter, otherwise ethernet is fine. Mini has it built-in.
     
  3. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    IMG_4276.JPG Here is a rough draft of my situation. I have access to the internet line in my utility room if that helps otherwise the router is upstairs in the office with no other cable going down to the utility room from there.
     
  4. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be doable. Keep in mind that the mini needs to connect to a coax that is connected to the internet/Roamio network. It doesn't connect to the antenna as it gets its stream from the Roamio. You'll need a couple of Moca adapters, one at the modem/router, one at the Roamio. Mr. Kaufman will show up here with the splitters you'll need and their connections. He's the guru for these set ups.
     
  5. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    IMG_4277.PNG So tell me if I am getting warmer or colder. According to this diagram upstairs in my office I will need a bidirectional spitter right out of the wall. With one going to my modem and the other to the TiVo bridge device. Then downstairs where the cables all meet another bidirectional splitter. One is the internet coming in, another is the cable going to my office and then the third spot hooks up to the coax going to my mini? Thanks again so far for the help. I've read quite a few posts but just can't wrap my mind around it fully yet.
     
  6. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    In the absence of Mr. Kaufman's expertise and diagramming wizardry, I can tell you that you may need anywhere from 1-3 MoCA filters depending on what configuration you end up with and what cable modem you have.
    If you can somehow get an Ethernet cable from the router to the Tivo OTA is the first task. Can you get an Ethernet cable from that upstairs office to the OTA directly or at least to an area (basement) where the antenna coax is located?
    Also, what is the make and model number of the cable modem?
    PS. All splitters are bi-directional.
     
  7. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    It's a Cisco DPC 3006 modem. I am not able to get any Ethernet connection to either of my tivos. Thanks for the heads up on the splitters!!
     
  8. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    Or could I use a Actiontec Coax Networkadapter kit ECB2500CK01? Would it work to put that device in my office so I have an Ethernet connection and then I would be able to put my router and modem in my utility room if that'd help the situation. Maybe that is way out in left field and completely wrong but I was just reading stuff online about it.
     
  9. UCLABB

    UCLABB Well-Known Member

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    That looks fine. My moca adapter has a coax in and coax out, I assume that it acts as the splitter. Hang tight until Kaufman shows up here to show how to get internet to your Roamio and mini.

    Yes, I think you are getting warm with the idea to put the router and modem in the utility room so that it can easily link to to the two TiVo devices. Again, wait for Mr.l Kaufman.
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Seems like the only thing missing is getting the MoCA signal to the Roamio OTA location. See the following post for background on antenna/satellite diplexers to help with this last piece of the puzzle.
    Then, posts #2, #3 & #5 from a thread with a similar scenario to yours should help inform how the diplexer can be employed at your utility room junction point to get the OTA & MoCA signals to the Roamio OTA without the OTA & cable signals conflicting. (In your setup, the N-way splitter should probably be an unbalanced 3-way splitter, with the low-loss output connecting to the cable modem run, to deliver the best signal strength to the cable modem. Note that you'll need 2 MoCA filters, as well, to keep the MoCA signal secured to your coax lines.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017 at 1:45 AM
    mdavej likes this.
  11. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    So I have a feeling I am going to be knocking on the right door or you'll be shaking your head at my response. So I will have the direct line from the antenna go into a poe filter before coming in side. Then take that line in my utility room and attach it to the diplexer on the double side. Then hook the cable line that goes to my Roamio to the single side. With the last opening run a cable to the splitter on the 3 side. On the single plug side my cable line connected to my charter internet goes there. Then the last two openings one goes up to my office to the modem and router and the other goes to the mini. So at this point I will assume the TiVo bridge units need to be connected to the Roamio and mini devices. I would take the cable from the wall, plug it into the bridge and then run the Ethernet and new coax to the boxes. Thank you so much for the help. My mind has been spinning and my wife is starting to wonder how much money I spent on this stuff just sitting there haha.
     
  12. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    I would also add a Poe filter outside where the charter line comes into my house as well if that is right?
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Close; but the terminology leaves room for misinterpretation. Per the diagram in the linked "post #5"...

    OTA-MoCA-Cable.png
    • Ideally, the "PoE" MoCA filters would be directly attached to the 3-way splitter's input port and the diplexer's "ANT (VHF/UHF)" port, rather than in-line, to provide the best possible MoCA performance benefit. (Also, installing the "PoE" MoCA filters indoors, in a secure location, is preferred. See here.)

    • Diplexer's "SAT" port (through which MoCA signals will pass) should connect to an output of the 3-way splitter.

    • Diplexer's "IN/OUT" port connects to the Basement Living Room coax run (destined for Roamio OTA).
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 6:54 PM
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    No. See the first bullet in my previous post.
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Not quite. One step forward, and one back... as you had previously correctly described the connection of one MoCA adapter at your modem/router location in order to establish your MoCA network -- providing the bridge between your coax/MoCA network and your Ethernet LAN (and router/Internet).

    As others have previously highlighted, the Mini has built-in MoCA connectivity (provided it's connected to a coax line with an active MoCA network) and so could be directly connected to its wall outlet in the Upstairs Living Room, but the Roamio OTA lacks any MoCA functionality, and so, yes, a second MoCA adapter would be required at the Roamio OTA location to provide the Roamio with its required wired network connection.

    Exactly how you'd connect the Roamio OTA and its MoCA adapter is dependent on:
    • The model MoCA adapter purchased :: If the MoCA adapter has a second "RF/TV Out" port, the MoCA adapter can be connected directly to the Basement Living Room coax wall outlet, and then the Roamio OTA can be connected to the MoCA adapter's "RF/TV Out" coax port. Absent a "RF/TV Out" port on the MoCA adapter, the Roamio and MoCA adapter would each need to connect directly to the coax line, requiring a split of the coax.

    • Concern regarding signal loss in the antenna feed to the Roamio OTA :: If a split of the coax is required, an antenna/satellite diplexer could be used at the Roamio OTA location to direct only the antenna signal to the Roamio OTA and the MoCA signal to the MoCA adapter, rather than using a simple 2-way splitter. The benefit comes from a diplexer being a dual filter, rather than a splitter, so the signal incurs less loss passing through a diplexer than a splitter.

      It should be noted that MoCA adapters with a second "RF/TV Out" port use an internal diplexer, rather than a splitter, to redirect the TV frequencies to the "RF/TV Out" port.

    • Other Ethernet-capable devices in the Basement Living Room :: If you have additional Ethernet-capable devices at the Roamio OTA location that might also benefit from a wired network connection, you could connect the Roamio's MoCA adapter to an Ethernet switch, rather than directly to the Roamio's Ethernet port, and then connect the Roamio and any other co-located Ethernet-capable devices (gaming consoles, TV, ...) to the network switch.

    Note that bullet #1, above, also applies to the MoCA adapter at your cable modem location. If the MoCA adapter has a pass-through port, the modem could be connected via the MoCA adapter, removing the need for a splitter and delivering a slightly stronger signal to the modem.

    MoCA adapter pass-through.jpg

    However, due to the specs of an antenna/satellite diplexer, a diplexer should NOT be used at the cable modem location as a substitute for a splitter, even though you only need the MoCA signals fed to the MoCA adapter and the cable Internet signals delivered to the modem. It's possible, even likely, that your provider's cable Internet signals lie outside the pass-band specs of a diplexer's "ANT (VHF/UHF)" port, and so would be filtered from reaching the modem by the diplexer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 7:09 PM
  16. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    Ok let's try this again. So I will put the filters inside my house. I will attach one to the input on the splitter. My internet cable will plug into that. Then I will attach one to the antenna cable that plugs into the ant port on the diplexor. From the sat connector on the diplexor I will connect to the splitter. On the second output on the splitter I will attach a cable to my TiVo bridge and then will use the output on the bridge to run to my internet modem. The third spot on the splitter I will run directly to my mini box. Lastly I will plug a cable into the input on the diplexor and run it to my Roamio dvr. But it will be connected to the TiVo bridge and then connected to the Roamio device.
     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    One output of the initial "cable" splitter will connect to your Office coax run, where both the main bridging MoCA adapter and cable modem will be located, and connected as you'd previously described it in your post, above -- with the exact connection setup dependent on whether the MoCA adapter has a second "RF/TV Out" port.
     
  18. Johakyle

    Johakyle New Member

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    Ok so I will connect the cable that goes to my office to the 3 way splitter. Then from the connection in the wall of my office I will run a cable to my bridge(has input and output) then from the output will connect that cable to the modem?
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Basically, you should end up with something similar to the attached diagram, slightly tweaked from another recent thread...

    Johakyle moca example.png
    NOTES:
    • The diagram is missing the antenna "PoE" MoCA filter, which could/should be installed on the "ANT (VHF/UHF)" port of the diplexer.

    • Though not diagrammed, as alluded to in fcfc2's post, above, you may need a "protective" MoCA filter on the input to your DPC3006 cable modem if you find that it isn't compatible with MoCA signals. Some older modems become unstable when MoCA signals are introduced on the coax lines. (see here)

    • Splitters A & B could be combined into a single unbalanced 3-way splitter, with the low-loss output connected to the Office/modem run.

    • Splitters C & D would be unnecessary if the MoCA adapters have a second "RF/TV Out" port.

    • If the Roamio's MoCA adapter lacks a second "RF/TV Out" port, splitter D could be replaced with an antenna/satellite diplexer to conserve signal strength, with the "IN/OUT" port connecting to the wall outlet, the "ANT (VHF/UHF)" port connected to the Roamio and the "SAT" port to the MoCA adapter.

    • A network switch could be used in the Basement Living Room to wire multiple Ethernet-capable devices to the network via the MoCA adapter. Note that this switch could be the built-in switch in a wireless access point if you were also looking to improve wireless coverage; alternatively, a wireless access point could be just one of the devices wired to a simple network switch.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, correct.
     

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