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Roamio Internal Blue Light... No startup...

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by FishTail74, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. FishTail74

    FishTail74 New Member

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    Aug 24, 2008
    I had the BOX CLOSED (cover still on), when I saw the INTERNAL blue light. On the lowest level Roamio, the cover is black, but also slightly translucent. So with the lights dim in the room, and no front lights on, that internal blue light is actually very noticeable. (though only on when the "problem" occurs)

    As for your "no harm came of that" scenario, that was exactly what I wanted to know. So as a last resort, I'll consider trying that. If anyone else has knowledge/facts/test that they have done that will help, please let me know.

    -thanks!
     
  2. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,697
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Sorry I did not know that you had the 4 tuner Roamio
     
  3. andyman58

    andyman58 New Member

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    Feb 6, 2003
    Midwest
    If its the 4 tuner roamio with the little brick power supply, perhaps the hd is drawing too much power on startup. Did you put a low power hd in there? I've seen this on computers with a lot of components and a too small power supply. Hit and miss bootup. Try the original one and see if it boots reliably. If so, you'll have to get a low power hd or a bigger power brick.
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    It seems extremely unlikely that TiVo would have spent money to include a chassis intrusion detector on the S5s, so as long as you don't change the hard drive you can probably take the cover off and leave it off and they'll never know.

    And if you take the cover off and find the blue LED, maybe there'll be something silk-screened next to it on the board that gives a clue as to what it's there for.

    But I wouldn't waste any time exchanging it as faulty.

    EDIT: By which I mean I'd claim it to be faulty and get it exchanged without delay.
     
  5. FishTail74

    FishTail74 New Member

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    Aug 24, 2008
    Good idea, maybe. Normally the power brick is pretty warm, as you'd expect. But who knows about start up peeks. It's the "WD AV-GP 3TB AV Video Hard Drive: 3.5 Inch, SATA II, 64 MB Cache - WD30EURS", which is made for low energy and constant on DVR applications.

    I looked but can't find any info regarding power consumption of the drive, not even on WD's site. Though it does say it "40% lower" than some other drives. Anyone know what the power usage of it is, vs the TiVo original one?

    And if anyone does know what the BLUE internal light means (as outlined in my original post) please tell me! ...TiVo extended my return to 60 days, so I have some more time to learn and try things.
     
  6. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    How many amps at which voltage should be right there on the label on the top of that WD drive.
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    According to a picture I found via Google images, it's 0.60A at 5V and 0.45A at 12V.
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Which works out to 3 Watts and 5.4 Watts, respectively, for a total of 8.4 Watts.
     
  9. FishTail74

    FishTail74 New Member

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    Aug 24, 2008
    That doesn't sound significant at all. I read that on start-up a normal TiVo Roamio pulls in around 27 watts. So even if assumed the original HDD was next to nothing, that still puts it at less than 35 watts. I'd check mine, but can't because it's buried inside my entertainment cabinet behind my Amp which has a rat's nest of wires I'd then have to re-do. Anyone able to find the spec online?

    Un-Answered Questions:
    1) Is the low-end TiVo Roamio power supply (brick) rated for more than 35 watts?
    2) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
     
  10. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,697
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    1) The brick should tell you the output voltage and amps, just multiply the two IE 12vdc 3 amps would be 35 watts.

    2) I don't think anybody knows what the blue light is as it seems you need a problem with the unit to see the blue light, and most people that had problems with this model TiVo (and few people have any problem in the first 30 days) would send it back, not look for a blue light, if the TiVo CSRs can't tell you its meaning this Forum most likely can't, so send the TiVo back and stop driving yourself nuts over this as your not going to try to fix a new TiVo yourself anyways, even if you knew what the blue light was for.
     
  11. FishTail74

    FishTail74 New Member

    43
    0
    Aug 24, 2008
    It was a pain to un-wire things but I did, and discovered that the low-end TiVo Roamio power supply (brick) is only rated for 24 watts. And the ORIGINAL 500GB TiVo HDD is less than 2w, vs more than 8w on the upgraded HDD. So Being as the power supply is marginally strong enough to sustain the TiVo, it is possible at start up it struggles even more, and maybe this is the cause of the internal Blue light no-start-up issue.

    This suggest that maybe the unit is fine, and I'm simply pushing it's power limit, so I think I'll keep it. I really don't want to return it because if I do I'll loose out on more than $200 of savings that I can't get any longer. (paid $400 total, for Roamio unit w/ LTS, due to a very special circumstance with an older unit, that they won't honor any more)

    I appreciate all the good suggestions! But if anyone does directly know the answers to my questions, please do still reply. -Thanks!


    Un-Answered Questions:
    1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
    (Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
     
  12. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,697
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Other people have upgraded the low end Roamio with 3Tb drive without problems, why yours ?
     
  13. FishTail74

    FishTail74 New Member

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    Aug 24, 2008
    I said "suspicion", because I don't know if this is the problem or not, I only suspect it.... But being as my problem is intermittent and only at start-up, an increase of 25% more demand on the power supply, it's not unreasonable to suspect it's on the edge of their "enough" power limit. Factor in that maybe my Towns VAC is on the low end vs the average, and the fact that I have something like 8 things plugged in to that 1 outlet (which might be above average)... to suspect that might pull the voltage down low enough to trip the problem half the time, isn't that far fetched. But I'm still hoping someone with facts will answer my below question, vs the rest of us speculating.

    Un-Answered Questions:
    1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
    (Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
     
  14. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If you've already replaced the original drive, even temporarily, then technically you've voided your warranty already.

    Can you tell by looking at the original power supply for that TiVo if it puts out AC or DC and at what voltage?

    Because if it's just a +12V DC supply, find another one (+12V DC supply) with the same connector (with the polarity wired the same way!!!!!) and more current capability and see if that makes the blue light go away.
     
  15. FishTail74

    FishTail74 New Member

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    Aug 24, 2008
    Thanks, but I'm not looking for any more random test ideas. It's an intermittent problem, and sometimes it takes a half hour just to get the problem to happen. So proving the problem isn't there, isn't easy.

    At this point I'm just hoping to leave it clear that my question is still unanswered, in hopes that some day someone might come along with the answer. But thank you all for the input.


    Un-Answered Question:
    1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
    (Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
     
  16. ringo574

    ringo574 New Member

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    0
    Feb 13, 2006
    I just got that internal blue light on my Roamio its on the top, right of the box close to the front.

    This morning I lost the picture on my box but the sound was still working so I decided to reset the box by unplugging it. After I plug it back in I got no response and the blue light on top came on and stayed on. I unplugged it again this time waited for about 30sec then plugged it back in and it rebooted and started up. Its working now.

    I have the Roamio I got it about a year ago and I upgraded the HD to a 3TB HD when I first got it.
     
  17. telemark

    telemark New Member

    1,544
    1
    Nov 12, 2013
    I'll answer it but leave you with more questions.

    There's actually 4 internal LED lights on a Base Roamio board.
    Green
    Blue
    Red
    Yellow

    Blue and Green are used during booting probably as checkpoint indicators. I'll elaborate.

    Embedded developers code on a PC and upload to the board the build for testing. Many times, a bug you introduced will prevent it from booting all the way, so you put statements in the code at critical operations to indicate it's gotten past that hump. When there's a terminal, you can print a detailed progress, but without, when you just have the board you resort to these LED indicator lights, as a broad stroke.

    That's a long way of me trying to say, the BLUE LIGHT is not an error message per se, everyone's Roamio does that. The trouble is it does not turn off, so it was the last OK message [ "I'm here" ] to make it out, before getting stuck or derailed.

    From my memory, the stages during a normal boot are:
    a) Blue external + Red external LED's then
    b) Blue internal LED then
    c) Green internal LED then
    d) Green external + Yellow external flashing LED's

    d) is what we call Kickstart entry, so the c->d transition is triggered by a startup script

    The Roamio hardware boots really fast so it's hard to eye for certain what's doing when, without some contraption.

    I'm going to guess from experience, the b->c transition is an instruction in the bootloader.

    That might leave the a->b transition, an instruction (if it can be called that) in the verifier (for the bootloader). That's a guess, or more precisely a deduction on shaky information.

    The off->a transition may be a hardwire for when chips reach ready.

    The best way to find out for sure is someone who consistently gets a stuck blue light, would need a TTL serial cable monitoring for a descriptive error message being printed out.

    If someone's box does this reliably and wants to volunteer, I'll write out the directions. Requires a USB computer near by. It also might not say anything. If it's too early, it might use a lower level communication channel.

    Alternatively, the box is not 100%... if you contact Tivo Support and can have the details passed to Engineering (if it appears it's not in their error troubleshooting script) the developers should easily recognize it, but you might not get a better explanation than it needs to be replaced.

    New questions:
    Why does the first stage have two LED's ? Is it two CPU cores, two chips?
    Where is the bootloader stored that it could not pass verification sometimes?
    When does the Red or Yellow LED get used? Unlocked bootloader? An Error condition?
     

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