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Revolution--S01E03--10/01/2012--"No Quarter"

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by aaronwt, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. Oct 3, 2012 #81 of 183
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    So far, by all indications, there is a single villainous overlord running the chicago area. And how did he come to power when the same area would have plenty of national guard and local military units who you too think were likely to become active, benevolent forces in the local area? Did they within 15 years devolve into mindless psychopaths obeying a low-to-mid-level military dude who previously had abandoned his post? And did they also agree to formally abandon the united states and all it stood for and treat anyone who did not as enemies guilty of the highest order of treason? Perhaps monroe put something in the water to accomplish this?
     
  2. Oct 3, 2012 #82 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    See the post above yours.

    To add to that, how many active duty/reserves were located in the area when the blackout hit? How many active bases are in the Chicago area? How many of the troops stationed there were deployed? How many were in airplanes at the time? (Because they are undoubtedly dead). Maybe one of those falling planes hit the base and wiped them out.

    Who knows. But 15 years is a *long* time. Maybe the local cops and soldiers keep doing their duty for a week or two while everything goes to hell around them. But if they have families, that's probably all we could expect of them. Faced with protecting their family and trying to find supplies to survive on, "doing their duty" is going to come in a distant second. One day, 2 guys don't show up. The next, 5 more. Within a week, no one is showing up.

    Again, 15 years is a tremendously long time, when surviving for a month is going to be hard. I think that old allegiances are going to fall pretty quickly, once you realize that the USA, as you know it, is dead, or at least not able to help you save your family.

    Now, the show may never satisfactorily explain this to me, or to you. But after 3 eps, I'm at least willing to consider the possibility that it could go down like that, and I'm not ready to rule it out as being preposterous. But maybe you just have more faith in the human condition than I do.
     
  3. Oct 3, 2012 #83 of 183
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    You just described the Chicago area. It contains a few key military bases (e.g. the navy RTC) as well as the second largest police force in the united states. It would be quite something for Monroe to take dominion over this area if all of those soldiers are still around and waving the US flag.
     
  4. Oct 3, 2012 #84 of 183
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    For some reason I have faith that police officers would be dedicated to their duties beyond "a week or two." Call me crazy.
     
  5. Oct 3, 2012 #85 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    I normally would as well.

    But in a situation like this, I'm not so sure. I just think that when something like this goes down - whether it be zombies, aliens, The Event, or The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia - your first instinct is going to be to take care of your family. Everything else is secondary.
     
  6. Oct 3, 2012 #86 of 183
    pmyers

    pmyers Active Member

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    In this scenario...I think that is crazy. Maybe military would hold on a little longer.
     
  7. Oct 3, 2012 #87 of 183
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    And yet Monroe's regime has eliminated the vast majority of civilian-held firearms in the entire region. Why is Monroe able to police the entire area when you say the legitimate police and military are unable to do so?
     
  8. Oct 3, 2012 #88 of 183
    JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    Adolph of Austria never was promoted beyond the rank of Gefreiter or Private when he served in the German Army.
    He was also convicted of high treason and yet managed to become head of State.
     
  9. Oct 3, 2012 #89 of 183
    trainman

    trainman Nice to see you

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    After 15 years, the iPhone still had an 11% charge? Wow!

    (Yes, really, I assume that's a function of electricity no longer "working," thus meaning it doesn't discharge.)
     
  10. Oct 3, 2012 #90 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    Well, we've already seen that Monroe isn't able to effectively police the entire area because a) some people still have guns, and b) there is a rebellion working to subvert him. Monroe rules through fear - apparently by random acts of cruelty through his traveling bands of henchmen - and by defusing the ability of others to rise to power (by confiscating weapons when they are discovered).

    The difference is that Monroe presumably rose to power in a vacuum, after society had devolved. Order from chaos and all that. He wasn't trying to prevent it from devolving, as the legitimate police/military would have tried to do. They would have been fighting a losing battle from Day 1, whereas Monroe was able to be more opportunistic. Just speculating here, but I imagine that the Monroe Rebublic started out as a good thing - providing some security to its members, the ability to focus on starting over and setting up a new infrastructure instead of just surviving the general lawlessness - but then went bad for one reason or another.
     
  11. Oct 3, 2012 #91 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    And he managed to do so in less than 15 years in a civilized society through "peaceful means" and without having to rely on a catastrophe or apocalyptic event to take place, merely by scapegoating and preying on the fears and insecurities of his followers. Once he got a bit of power, he began consolidating it and systematically eliminating his enemies and their ability to fight back (by throwing key opponents in concentration camps, silencing the press, and by organized brutality).

    So it's not like there's no precedent...
     
  12. Oct 3, 2012 #92 of 183
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    This seems like a very realistic response to their world. And we know the people in the cul-de-sac were paying their taxes and probably did not have any issue until they came around looking for Charlies father.
     
  13. Oct 3, 2012 #93 of 183
    Win Joy Jr

    Win Joy Jr Active Member

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    I am going to disagree here. All forms of communication ceased in an instant. Without communications, there is no chance for the government to coordinate serving the population. How would the POTUS command the government? Hand written orders? How could you authenticate such orders?

    As an example, how far do you live away from your work? Most do not work within walking distance. I work 65 miles away from my house. How long for me to walk home, especially if I was not prepared with potable water and food?

    Even on military bases, only the lowest rank typically live on base. Most higher rank live off base, and not within walking distance. And would they leave their homes to report for duty in these circumstances? And those on duty on base would try to get to their loved ones. And if a messenger showed up with written orders from POTUS, would you know what his handwriting really looked like?

    And the rest of the globe is in the same boat as we are, so potential invasion from hostile forces is a minimal threat in the short time.

    Local law enforcement? Look at New Orleans and Katrina, and they had warning.

    Society would fall within a few days in urban areas, a week in suburban, and a month in rural. Our food supply chain delivers "Just in time", and most people have maybe a weeks worth of food available after pershiables go bad due to a lack power. No food? Bad things happen... What I have found interesting is there has been no mention on what was done with the bodies of those who did not survive. I am curious on what the population of the CONUS is at that point in time.

    Maybe there is something to the Mormon belief to have a years worth of food on hand. Have I just talked myself into being a prepper? (Do not cue the Dr. Pepper jokes)....

    I would love to hear more on what happened on the boarder regions after the event, and what did really happen to the government.
     
  14. Oct 3, 2012 #94 of 183
    Win Joy Jr

    Win Joy Jr Active Member

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    What type of support would the police have? How would they eat? Are they enough police not to send them out alone? And it is nothing but foot patrol, so their effective radius is a half days walk from the station. And would it be martial law, or would they arrest people? How would you feed those arrested? Would the jails be manageable without electricity? And would the courts be functional?

    Police would be the first to throw in the towel.
     
  15. Oct 3, 2012 #95 of 183
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    The fact that some civilians have guns does not mean that Monroe is not able to police the region. It just means that it is not perfect. Which no police force is.

    Similarly, the fact that there is resistance to his rule proves little. Every dictatorship I'm familiar with had to deal with rebels, but many dictatorships last quite a while anyway.

    And all rule is ultimately by fear. Even in a democracy, the reason most people obey most laws is not because they are perfect citizens (or, not only because), it is because they fear the consequences if they break the law.

    So, none of your justifications make sense. The question remains. If Monroe is able to rule the whole region, then why did the much better equipped and trained police and military of the US not do so? Especially when they had the existing government backing going for them. It is absurd that the US patriots are considered rebels now. Completely unbelievable.
     
  16. Oct 3, 2012 #96 of 183
    That Don Guy

    That Don Guy Now with more GB

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    Why do I have this crazy feeling that, somehow, the rebels are going to manage to get the one operating warship that doesn't need electricity - USS Constitution - into Lake Michigan and somehow use it to take back the region?

    For that matter, why do I think that, if there ever is an ending, that the people who want the "United States" to return would want to reform the 50 states as they were, which makes no sense?
     
  17. Oct 3, 2012 #97 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    See Win Joy's posts above.
     
  18. Oct 3, 2012 #98 of 183
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    I saw it. Does not answer my question. All he does is list reasons why it would be difficult to maintain rule after the electricity stopped working.
     
  19. Oct 3, 2012 #99 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    I addressed your question in the second paragraph of my post that you for some reason redacted when you responded to it.
     
  20. Oct 3, 2012 #100 of 183
    john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    I didn't respond because it was a non-answer. It makes no sense.
     

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