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Revolution--S01E03--10/01/2012--"No Quarter"

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by aaronwt, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. Oct 3, 2012 #41 of 183
    pmyers

    pmyers Active Member

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    They would also want to protect their families...can't do that at a base.
     
  2. Oct 3, 2012 #42 of 183
    Anubys

    Anubys KMT Soccer Playa

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    Seriously you guys? how many military people you know would pledge allegiance to the Monroe Republic and kill people trying to revive the U.S.? I can understand if this was 250 years later, but 15? no fraking way.

    I can see pockets of "new states" forming up, with governors taking the role of dictators. But law and order was never the province of electricity. Countries lived quite well without it for centuries.
     
  3. Oct 3, 2012 #43 of 183
    TAsunder

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    Yeah. I'm sure they won't overlook this. There has to be an explanation given at some point.
     
  4. Oct 3, 2012 #44 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    I think what some people are missing is that there are *many* militias around. It hasn't been all that clear from the show so far, because it's all dealt with a pretty small area, the entire country (or what used to be the country) is now made up of smaller fiefdoms ruled by warlords and/or militias. I'm guessing that most of those are former military.
     
  5. Oct 3, 2012 #45 of 183
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    Not as well as you'd think. The US military's main current advantage is technology (tanks, jets, missiles, etc). With no power, it's a level playing field. It would come down to man-power, training and weapons. Thanks to the 2nd amendment, the public would have plenty of the later and civilians vastly outnumber the military.

    Plus a military is only as good as it's commanders. In ancient times, generals would ride out with the troops, but in this day and age, they command remotely. Without orders, the military would basically do what Miles and Monroe were doing on the show, which is sitting in their base, waiting for orders which would never come. The entire U.S military would need to restructure into numerous semi-autonomous units or basically militia.

    Also it's hinted that the Monroe Miltia is at least partially made up of ex-US military.
     
  6. Oct 3, 2012 #46 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    Because they never had it. We've relied on electricity for so long that we have forgotten how to live without it.

    The problem with American society today is that, by and large, we are a nation of consumers, not producers. We have no idea how to make anything anymore. So what happens when you are struggling to survive and cannot make your own food/shelter/clothing/whatever? You have to steal it from someone else. Sure, you can scavenge for awhile, but inevitably you will have to steal from someone else. And that person won't like it, and violence will break out. Who's going to punish the thief? No one. The police and the judges and everyone else that used to provide law and order are all trying to survive and protect their families too.

    After not too much time, I can see society breaking down near completely. Sure, there will be pockets of co-ops that will spring up, as people of like minds band together to try and survive. But they will have to be prepared to defend themselves against those who would rather steal than learn how to create.
     
  7. Oct 3, 2012 #47 of 183
    TAsunder

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    But how many people are going to suddenly be willing to overthrow the government? It seems like the military and government just dissipates in Revolution.
     
  8. Oct 3, 2012 #48 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    What government? There will be no communication from the government. There will be no supplies/provisions from the government. Those people who are waiting for the government to save them are going to die off pretty quickly.
     
  9. Oct 3, 2012 #49 of 183
    TAsunder

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    Really? So all local, state, and national authorities magically disappear in this scenario? All military bases are just abandoned with no one attempting any communication for years? No one beyond Monroe could possibly figure out how to organize at any level for 15 straight years, and all of the huge stockpiles of weaponry and law enforcement tools no longer exist ANYWHERE? And none of this is the result of a civil uprising? Sorry, but it's completely preposterous.
     
  10. Oct 3, 2012 #50 of 183
    MasterCephus

    MasterCephus New Member

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    That's kind of my point. I don't buy the "people would run to their families" kind of argument. I would imagine the best way to protect my family would be to fall in line with a group of people who can defend. And after a collapse like that, it would be local law enforcement, national guard posts, etc.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's quite a sell to say only this Monroe guy can inspire people to join him in his quest to restore order...
     
  11. Oct 3, 2012 #51 of 183
    TAsunder

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    Right. And I assume (perhaps erroneously) that they will address this one way or another and not just leave it to the audience to assume that the entire world order collapses into random local militias in 15 years.
     
  12. Oct 3, 2012 #52 of 183
    Anubys

    Anubys KMT Soccer Playa

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    I'm not disputing the lawlessness and the killing. I'm sure all that would happen as the worst in people would come to the forefront.

    I just cannot fathom that people would abandon their identity (America) that easily and completely. People who organize those militias would do it in the name of the flag and patriotism (which is what Miles did, we presume) much easier than via allegiance to Monroe's republic and having the rebels being the "Americans". There is no way this would happen in 15 years. No way.
     
  13. Oct 3, 2012 #53 of 183
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    "New states" are forming, they are just being formed by ex-military, not politicians. Most modern politicians would not make "good" dictators.

    As for countries living well before electricity. That was then, this is now. Technology actually makes people "dumber" in that they become dependent on it. A good example is people who follow GPS navigation devices on to train tracks or into rivers.

    For other examples see:

    http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2005/04/21/why-reliance-on-technology-is-a-bad-thing/
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...echnology-is-undermining-spelling-skills.html

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Oct 3, 2012 #54 of 183
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    That's just it, it's not "only this Monroe guy". Monroe and Miles were the guys in the Chicago area that did this. It's been stated that there are other Militias. That's why Monroe wants to get the electricity back so he can defeat the other militias.
     
  15. Oct 3, 2012 #55 of 183
    TAsunder

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    When was this stated? I find it hard to believe that Monroe is the only person capable of holding together a militia in his area and that he remains unchallenged by his highly oppressed citizens who are murdered on a whim and treated like slaves.
     
  16. Oct 3, 2012 #56 of 183
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    I can see Monroe and Miles telling people that they are going to run things until the U.S. Government re-establishes and then over a few years morphing that into a ban on anything "U.S. related". It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened, especially if Miles or Monroe was charismatic.
     
  17. Oct 3, 2012 #57 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    Of course not. But local authorities are pretty much useless when it comes to providing basic necessities. We've seen that for years. Cue up every natural disaster in recent history, when the locals needed FEMA to help out almost immediately. Guess what - there's no FEMA anymore (well, there is, but they can't go anywhere not within walking distance, and they can't really carry any supplies except what they can pack on the back of a bicycle or horse).

    I think you're discounting the problems that will arise when instantaneous mass communication is no longer possible. How will orders be communicated, much less carried out? How will the states, even, communicate to their citizens that they are still up and running? Especially in one as big as CA, where the capital is nearly 500 miles from one of the borders? A government is only going to be respected when it can provide for and protect its citizens.

    Did you miss the part where the entire country is fractured into local regions run by militias and warlords? There's your answer right there. I'm sure that local militias sprang up on the military bases once they realized there was no federal government with any power to protect or lead (or at least without the ability to communicate that over any distance). The garrisons banded together, a leader emerged, and the militias started to take shape.

    As for the weapons - did you see the troops guarding the outside of Monroe's tent? They had submachine guns. So clearly the huge stockpiles of weapons are there, they are just being closely held.

    I don't think it's preposterous. It's surely unlikely, but then again so is the whole scenario. But it's a pretty common theme in just about every post-apocalyptic scenario, whether in literature or movies.
     
  18. Oct 3, 2012 #58 of 183
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    I don't remember exactly when it was stated, but it was a throw away line in the pilot episode. Something like, with electricity he could dominate the other militias.
     
  19. Oct 3, 2012 #59 of 183
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    Just about every pre-premiere interview or article that I read had some version of this tagline: "Revolution takes place 15 years into the future, in a world in which all electricity -- anything that can throw a spark or carry a charge -- doesn't work any more. The country has been taken over by various factions and militias..."

    I'm also fairly certain that a throwaway line somewhere in the pilot that alluded to it.
     
  20. Oct 3, 2012 #60 of 183
    TAsunder

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    No we haven't. There are occasional cases of this but flooding and other things happen regularly and are handled quite well by local authorities.

    Please name these natural disasters in recent history where only FEMA has been able to do anything useful. I think you are basing your entire assumption of how the world operates on a narrow and inaccurate view of hurricane katrina. There have been many other hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. and to characterize everything local authorities have done in this way is inaccurate and somewhat insulting.

    Clearly no one would be able to figure this out and everyone would just sit around in the barracks for months with no ability to communicate, eventually leading to mass treasonous abandonment of posts which in turn leads to small militias forming and murdering huge swaths of citizens for no reason. Obviously there are no protocols for dealing with EMPs and the complete command structure of military bases would crumble instantly as soon as people are forced to relay orders via horse or foot. No one in charge would think to assemble and intervene to help citizens out, evacuate them to safe locations, etc. Except for Monroe's militia which for some reason manages to stick together by communicating face to face on horseback -- something no one else could possibly think of in 15 years.

    So you think Monroe's militia is better at any of this? They aren't. Monroe does none of the above and treats his citizens like meat. He does not communicate beyond horse travel and seems to have little or no ability to control his own people. Seems improbable that he comes to power yet the highly trained military of the us, national guard of illinois, etc. are all completely incapable of organizing and doing anything useful. Only FEMA is capable of handling emergencies at all. That's why we send them overseas to afghanistan whenever there is a dust storm.

    You are sure that in a short period of time the entire military structure of the united states would collapse into local militia? And you are sure that somehow the one Monroe started near one of the largest metropolitan areas in the US can somehow remain unchallenged despite committing mass murder?

    I'm confused... is it unlikely or isn't it? You seem to be arguing that it is likely and inevitable.
     

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