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Reliable transfer of .TS files?

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by alleybj, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    This sounds like an interesting experiment. I'm eager to hear what the outcome will be.
     
  2. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    As far as I'm concerned the Tivo is creating TS Sync loss at different points in the encrypted TS streams it delivers when sending those in request for a TS download of a program on the TiVo. Only the TiVo engineers know why (if they're still around). Different areas (I'll call TS zones) of the same program downloaded from the TiVo via TS ttg show up with TS packet loss due to TS sync lost in the different unencrypted TS TiVo downloads. Each of the downloads I made experienced TS sync loss at specific byte offsets in the TS stream I'm calling TS zones. Some of these downloads drop packets in zone 1, some in zone 2, some in zone 3, some in zone 1 & 2, 1 & 3, 1, 2 & 3, etc.

    Latest program I downloaded from my TiVo, 18 times, represented all combinations of the three distinct TS zones of TS packet loss and one that was error free.

    For me, case is closed after experimenting with 18 downloads of the same recorded program. Oh, wait, should I try again with the 19th download?
     
  3. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    Interesting analysis. It seems perhaps that a sync loss-free download is something the user has very little control over. I know that since your provider seems to only use H.264 ts streams that you would not know the answer, but for the ps streams that quit transferring early is it possible that sync loss would always occur at those points where a ps transfer cuts off early in the ts transfer of the same recording or can it possible that no sync loss would occur at those ps stream cutoff points?
     
  4. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Just finished downloading another H.264 recording. Took 21 downloads before I got a glitch free TS. The first 20 downloads had TS Sync loss in three different areas of the file, some downloads in any one of the areas, some in two of the three areas and others in all three areas. Only the 21st download had no TS Sync loss. Not sure about MPEG2 TS experiencing Sync loss as I only have one station I record that's still MPEG2 and I use PS downloads to avoid this issue.
     
  5. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    Luckily for me my provider still broadcasts in MPEG2 so I usually go the PS route, but I still occasionally get those incomplete downloads at which point I have to go the TS route to download the entire recording. I'll have to try to develop a program that will download a recording in TS and check for sync loss in the tivolibre output, and continue to download the same recording again until there are no issues. I may be going over my head with this. Let's hope not.
     
  6. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Problem appears to be fixed (crossing fingers). Not sure which one of the suggestions solved it, but don't care at this point. Friend suggested that I remove my Roamio hard drive and run it through SpinRite level two diagnostics and put it back which I did. Also that I shouldn't be recording/transferring/permanently deleting recordings so often and to just delete the recordings after successful recording/transfer and leave them on the TiVo for it to delete them as that would ensure the recordings were spread out on the hard drive and then would not keep writing to the same area on the HDD since little is known about the WD AV drives used and how the drive and the TiVo uses error correction/recovery (quoting her;-).

    Happy to say I've had 23 straight H.264 recordings transferred as TS without a single sync loss since that time. I think she may have a point.
     
  7. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    So basically after running SpinRite on the drive, I should avoid permanently deleting recordings after transferring them? Basically the problem isn't transferring them so often but rather the fact that you were permanently deleting them after transferring them if I have interpreted that correctly. I never permanently delete recordings after transferring them so maybe I just need to run SpinRite to perhaps have the issue go away on my end?

    Also how long would you say it would take a 2tb drive to run through SpinRite given how long it took to run what I presume is a 3tb WD AV drive in your Roamio?
     
  8. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    This block from the console would be an example of tivolibre indicating sync loss from a missing TS packet header?
    Code:
    02:03:19.753 [main] WARN  c.s.tivolibre.TivoDecoder - Invalid TS packet header for packet 10428684
    02:03:19.753 [main] WARN  c.s.tivolibre.TivoDecoder - TransportStream appears to be corrupt, cannot find sync bytes
    02:03:19.763 [main] DEBUG c.s.tivolibre.TivoDecoder - Starting value for resumeDecryptionAtByte: 0x74dca738
    02:03:19.773 [main] DEBUG c.s.tivolibre.TivoDecoder - Resume decryption at: 0x75800000
    02:03:19.903 [main] INFO  c.s.tivolibre.TivoDecoder - Re-synched at packet 10428685 (byte 0x74dca738)
     
  9. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Stock 500GB WD AV drive in my four tuner Roamio. Not sure how long it took as I started the SpinRite run late at night when I had no recordings scheduled and it was finished by morning. I'd guess no more than 8 hours, probably less. You could always contact their support and ask them.
     
  10. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Yes. The byte value given above for "Re-synched at packet 10428685 (byte 0x74dca738)" is the byte offest within the Transport Stream (exclusive of the tivo header and three chunks) that the lost sync was re-established.
    Once you get a download where tivolibre shows no sync loss you have a good download with no lost packets.
     
  11. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    So far I've only had one recording that downloaded with a sync loss in one area and the second download of the same recording was without sync loss. I'm checking all of my H.264 TS downloads using tivolibre with the -d debug switch which reports if there are any sync losses. That's a lot easier than examining every one in a hex editor!
     
  12. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Curious if anyone else is experiencing this who doesn't have a stock, out of the box TiVo drive (WD AV?) in a Roamio or Bolt? Like a WD Green or Blue drive, or whatever you are putting in them? Maybe something to do with how the TiVo and the original AV drive handle streaming protocols/remap of bad sectors/error recovery?

    tivolibre is the java program which I use to see if the TiVo recording downloaded in Fast Transfer mode (a.k.a. TransportStream) has experienced sync loss which results in glitches/loss of program material.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  13. lew

    lew Active Member

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    Mar 12, 2002
    I have no problem with ts transfers. I'm using WD AV drives.

    You might ask if posters having issues are using wireless, are using a laptop and if they have plenty if space on their computer.
     
  14. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Are you sure? If so, you're one of the lucky ones.
    Which Tivo models do you have and are they original drives?
    Not sure why I would ask that as it has nothing to do with the TiVo sending you a TS file with TS Sync loss? With a https connection and using TCP protocol I doubt any of that matters. But just for grins - WIRED/PC/PLENTY. And the OP stated three different TiVo's.
     
  15. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    I was about to say the same thing about it not being seemingly plausible that the connection would be the issue given the TCP protocol was being used.
     
  16. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Thanks Jill for the advice, but it didn't last. After 12 days I find the problem has slowly returned. Today, some recordings download without issue, yet others take two to 18 download retries to resolve. I find it very strange that I'm the only one that has this issue. No other TiVo owner experiences this problem?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2016
  17. nazopo

    nazopo Member

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    Dec 21, 2014
    Do you reschedule the download of a recording by hand or do you have some other way of doing so? If you're doing it by hand then I certainly commend you for being so persistent with a stubborn recording.
     
  18. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I doubt TiVo is even working on a fix since it involves a feature that they are no longer actively supporting. If they ever do release a "fix", it may consist of a complete removal of TiVo to PC transfer capability.
     
  19. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Got to the point that archiving glitched TS streams was so unreliable I started doing it manually. Not worth the trouble unless you REALLY want to get that one and only recording that will never be shown again, but then you're at your TiVo's mercy. Time to move on, as TiVo says "Bah Humbug, who records anymore, enjoy the new Streaming features we gave you and be silently compliant"
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  20. wuzznuubi

    wuzznuubi Member

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    Jan 16, 2013
    Came to the same conclusion. It's like investing in startups that never get off the ground and seem to lose sight of their original (kickstarter/etc.) goal/momentum and then succumb to the CORP AMERICA mantra of offshoring and...and..and. BYGONE, recycle, repeat AD NAUSEAM.
    SIGH
     

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