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Re-Watching Buffy The Vampire Slayer SPOILERS!

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by hummingbird_206, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    The idea that was described going into season 7 was "back to the beginning," and there was a definite suggestion that we were going to get sort of the formation of a "Scrappy Gang" around Dawn at the newly rebuilt Sunnydale High. I would have been very much on board with that.

    My idea for a replacement season 7: I would retain episodes 1-6 of season 7. Around season 7, I'd introduce a "little bad" of some sort that would cause Faith to return. Somewhere around episode 10, they'd face off against and defeat the little bad, but Faith falls in the battle. Given that the monks made Dawn from Buffy, with Faith falling, Dawn becomes the next Slayer. Giles then returns with news from the Watchers' Council that Buffy will be Dawn's watcher, but that Giles will remain in Sunnydale for a while to serve as watcher, while Buffy gets up to speed.

    Somewhere about this point, while training as a watcher, Buffy encounters a prophecy in one of Giles' long forgotten books that doesn't predict who the big bad is, but it does indicate what would be required to defeat him: destroying the Hellmouth itself. The latter half of the season develop Dawn and her friends as critical to the plan to defeat the big bad and destroying the hellmouth.

    I would completely lose the Potentials from the season, as well as the idea of "the first" as the big bad.

    Edit: ooooh... the new Sunnydale High principal would be the little bad... and the *school itself* could be the big bad. They end up determining that the school itself is like a lens that sort of focuses all the mystical evil in the hellmouth. And the only way to defeat the school and save the earth is to destroy both the school and the hellmouth itself, ensuring that the school is never rebuilt. Mmm... I like that. :)
     
  2. billypritchard

    billypritchard Embiggener

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    What Loadstar and Zevida said. I can't even rewatch season 7 at this point.

    And don't get me started on the afterschool special middle section of season 6. Magic is drugs, we get it. I liked the end of the season a lot, but wish they could have figured out a different way to get there.
     
  3. Zevida

    Zevida witless and unarmed TCF Club

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    S04E21 Primeval - B
    S04E22 Restless - A

    I enjoyed the very end of Primeval, when the Scoobies all joined and Buffy gained the strength of first slayer. That part of the battle between her and Adam was pretty great. I also liked Spike fighting the demons. Pretty good.

    Restless I did not appreciate during the original run. It was a pretty big WTF to me back then. I'm older, more mature, and wiser, and this watching, I loved it. The symbolism, foreshadowing, and cinematography were all spectacular. (Even in 16:9 :p.) One of the standout episodes of the show that really demonstrates this really isn't Twilight.

    Season 4 - B

    So far I'm 2 As (2 & 3) ad 2 Bs (1 & 4) on seasons. That seems about right to me. Season 4 had some standalone great episodes, but the season arc was weaker and packed less emotional punch than the two previous seasons. I think I liked season 4 better on a binge viewing rewatch than I did in the original watch. Binge viewing allows you to forgive the weak episodes more because you can quickly get to a good episode rather than waiting a week or more and stewing on the sub-par episode. At the end of the original airing, I probably would have given season 4 a C.

    Now because I'm a geek, I have to start a pivot for my ratings. I'm pretty sure I've only given one D, if that many, so my rating scale for episodes is really only A, B or C. :)

    S05E01 Buffy vs. Dracula - C

    Some funny moments, a good scene at the end with Buffy and Giles, and a total mindf*ck at the very end, but I still feel just meh about this one.
     
  4. Zevida

    Zevida witless and unarmed TCF Club

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    If I was going to rank the seasons off the cuff so far, I'd rank them 2, 3, 4, 1.

    But if I calculate based on average episode grade I've given, it would go 3, 2, 4, 1. Season 3 I have at 80% A or B, while season 2 is only 68% A or B.

    I'm such a nerd.
     
  5. billypritchard

    billypritchard Embiggener

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    I believe what you're seeing is that the overall quality of season 3 was superior, but the emotional punch of the last half of season 2 just overwhelms everything else when you consider ranking them. I do exactly the same thing, because when I first watched season 2 I was just crushed at the end. So perfect. I don't think anything matches the emotional resonance of that ending, other than perhaps The Body.
     
  6. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    Totally agree about S3 being stronger on the whole, but at the same time, the final 1/3 or so of S2 is so devastatingly powerful that it lingers longer.

    As for S7, I had similar feelings when I watched it the first time, but I found that on a binge rewatch it worked a lot better for me (as did S6 - Buffy's seemingly endless moping is not quite as arduous when it's over in a matter of hours, as opposed to a month or more. ;))

    I really liked the Potentials in concept (not so much in execution), and I found that montage in the finale (after Willow does her thing) where all of the potentials world-wide receive their abilities to be incredibly moving. I don't think I've done a re-watch since my daughter was born (she's now almost 7), but I'm sure it would affect me even more now.
     
  7. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    I'd rank the seasons as follows:

    2/3
    5

    4 (some great eps, but I didn't find Adam very compelling as a Big Bad)


    7 (the finale moves it ahead of S6 for me)
    6 (just too mopey, although some fantastic stand-alones)

    1 (barely watchable, but worth it for the nostalgia factor)
     
  8. billypritchard

    billypritchard Embiggener

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    Ha. As someone who was semi-obsessed with the Friday the 13th syndicated series back in the late 80's, I find the first season to be quite enjoyable.

    Of course it can't attain the heights of later seasons, but the beginnings of Whedon wit are definitely present through all the episodes.
     
  9. LoadStar

    LoadStar LOAD"*",8,1

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    I guess I don't understand the dislike of season 1. *shrug* I thought it was a nice, well paced, short season, and very enjoyable. The tone was a nice mix of light and dark. Yes, from a production aspect, Joss still has some growing up and learning to do, but it was far from "barely watchable" for me.

    I also don't get the love of the series finale. Frankly, the season 3 and season 5 finales WAY outshine the series finale. It's not even a close competition for me. In fact, there were moments of the series finale I'd call corny or even cringe-worthy. (It didn't help that the "big bad" was so lame that I didn't care who won or lost.)
     
  10. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    I agree with that. I could not believe how bad the final fight scenes were. Cringe-worthy is being kind.

    And if I recall, they trivialized the whole thing afterwards by saying there was another hellmouth in Cleveland. Although I suppose you could argue that that was only a joke. But in the context, it did not seem like a joke.
     
  11. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    But the Cleveland Hellmouth was referenced way earlier in the series.

    Without going off to research, I want to say it was mentioned as far back as Season 1 and in Season 3 when Faith showed up.
     
  12. Robin

    Robin Nasty Woman

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    Did they actually reference a hellmouth there or is it just where the other Buffy ends up?
     
  13. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    So it was not a joke.

    Like I said, trivialized the whole thing.
     
  14. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    The other hellmouth in Cleveland was referred to in "The Wish" (S3) and then again in the finale ("Chosen"). In "The Wish" it was where the Wishverse Buffy was "stationed" (since Cordy's wish was that Buffy had never come to Sunnydale), and Giles said it was a known demonic hotbed or something similar.
     
  15. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    I don't think it trivilialized anything. It wasn't as if Buffy had removed evil from the world or anything by derailing the First's plans to unleash the Uruk'hai (or whatever the uber-Vamps were called). Heck, it wasn't even the first time she had averted an apocalypse. That was basically an annual event. :)
     
  16. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    Right, they destroyed the hellmouth, but it took like 20 slayers and a superspell to do it and even then they would have failed except for the magic amulet that showed up at the last minute and a vampire with a soul to give his life.

    And then they just casually mention that there is another hellmouth in Cleveland.

    So their apparently epic victory was worth very little. They may have to pull it off again in a few years. Except in Cleveland. Ouch. :eek:
     
  17. Zevida

    Zevida witless and unarmed TCF Club

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    Ditto! I hadn't rewatched it in a long time and based on the comments early in this thread I thought it was be awful, but I found it quite enjoyable. The dialog is as sharp as ever right from the beginning. The production values were pretty bad and some of the stories were not that good. On the other hand, the first season standalone episodes had more of an X-Files feel to them, which I quite appreciated being an X-Files fan.

    I barely remember the series finale, so will have to wait to comment on that.
     
  18. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    This is a theme that Joss has revisited several times. It's even more prevalent in Angel.

    "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
     
  19. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    If nothing the characters do matters, then anything they do is quite trivial. By definition.
     
  20. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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