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R.I.P. Boxee: 3 lessons to learn from Boxee’s demise

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by sbiller, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    My understanding is that the Boxee hardware was only ever intended to be one platform for the Boxee software, much as the TiVo box is theoretically just a platform for the TiVo software. Presumably, Samsung will integrate Boxee features into their own devices.
     
  2. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    I see this primarily as a play to upgrade Samsung's software/services. Boxee has some talented software engineers that could improve the Samsung user experience.

    That is my translation of this Samsung statement,

     
  3. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    And what will happen with their existing boxes? Are they completely dead as far as development (bug fixes)? What happens to all the boxes that were for sale at Walmart?
     
  4. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

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    Pure FICTION. i don't know what alternate universe you live in, but it is certainly different from the rest of us.

    Dish was found guilty of infringing on TiVo's patents in a jury trial in 2006 and TiVo was awarded 74 million.
    EVERY SINGLE RULING after the jury award went TiVo's way. The major one concerning the infringing was the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals which affirmed the software infringing, but said the hardware infringing needed to be discussed more if TiVo wanted to pursue it. Since the software infringing was enough to require licenses, TiVo never did.

    Everything afterwards was Dish playing games; saying that very minor changes in their DVR software (going from 8 buffers to 10?) was sufficient to not require licenses, and if TiVo thought otherwise, they would have to sue again from the beginning. The trial judge said that was nonsense, and ruled (yet again) that Dish was infringing and awarded TiVo more money. Dish appealed and lost yet again.

    The final en banc ruling in 2011 included the following:
    The final ruling did say that some of the monetary judgement had to be vacated. Instead of $1.25/month for Dish's use of its modified software, the monetary penalty had to be $1.25/month for Dish's use of its original software, since the modified and original software had been ruled effectively the same. So a penalty got vacated, but an equal penalty got substituted.

    Dish was found of infringing on TiVo's patents at every step of the path (though some infringements were reduced). Your claim otherwise is just totally ridiculous.
     
  5. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    They are still for sale.

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Boxee-TV/21984297
     
  6. disturbedfred

    disturbedfred Exceptional Lurker

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    And I'm sure 6 years ago you were screaming how TiVo was going out of business any day. :)
     
  7. SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

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    Fantastic summary. Let's see if its ignored
     
  8. Johncv

    Johncv Active Member

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    There still for sale, but I would not buy one. Most likely the Boxee's will not receive any new support. I will bet that the cloud DVR will die before the end of the year.
     
  9. Richard Cranium

    Richard Cranium New Member

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    The CAFC also sent the case back to EDTX for another trial. A trial that never happened because of the settlement. Atrial that DISH may very well would have won.
     
  10. Richard Cranium

    Richard Cranium New Member

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    Whats ignored is my original point that this company would have gone under 6 years ago if it wasn't for patent trolling.

    They've never made a dime they didn't sue someone out of.

    Let's see what happens now that the lawsuits are over.
     
  11. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Moving goalposts should involve a back-hoe, crane, and flatbed. Making it out of Styrofoam and mounting it on wheels just isn't right.
     
  12. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    There is just about universal agreement that TiVo isn't a Patent Troll. It doesn't really matter at this point. Now that TiVo has license agreements or business arrangements covering a very high percentage of US DVRs, the attention on TiVo will now focus on their core business which is now profitable.
     
  13. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

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    And that, as you undoubtedly know but won't admit, had nothing to do with the FACT of infringement. It got sent back to the trial judge so he could make the substitution of penalty that I've already talked about; appeals courts don't generally do that themselves. The trial judge couldn't change the finding of infringement even if he wanted to - at that point only the Supreme Court could.
     
  14. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

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    Perhaps they would have gone bankrupt in your personal alternate universe where the FACTS are very different from our world, but not in the real world.

    At that time, TiVo had demonstrated that they could break even any time they wanted to (reduce hardware subsidy and research funding) and they had no long term debt. You can't be forced into bankruptcy unless you owe money!

    I agree that the patent infringement money has helped TiVo a lot - they dramatically upped their research budget for instance, but lack of it would not have caused bankruptcy in that time period.

    They were in danger of bankruptcy 4-5 years previously, when they had to sell off 1/6 of the company just to get 3-4 months of operating expenses. That was so they could bring out the Series 2 (including DirecTiVo) which was their first "self-produced" hardware. But they had recovered from that by 6 years ago.
     
  15. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    And now we'll see how they survive without the patent windfalls. My guess is not well, and they'll eventually get bought out by someone big because of those patents. Which is pretty much what they need anyway, a management and development overhaul due to all the wasted potential.
     
  16. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    I really wish we could have a conversation on this forum without Richard Cranium dragging it down.

    The moderators on this forum are sleeping on the job if you ask my opinion.

    A simple topic on the current state / future of Boxee turns into patent rant against TiVo, my thread on a the future Tivo models, turns into a rant against TiVo.

    What is really frustrating is that the "rants" aren't even on topic...

    I don't even want to read a thread around here anymore.
     
  17. moedaman

    moedaman New Member

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    The trouble with that is, I doubt that there are any large companies out there that want consumers to be able to own their equipment. Those companies either want streaming to take the place of personal dvrs or want to sell directly to the pay-tv providers. If Tivo can't survive on their own, then we'll be left with pc cable card dvrs with an uncertain future due to Microsoft not putting any more effort into Media Center.
     
  18. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    The only thing that's uncertain is how long Microsoft will be providing guide data to Media Center PCs. You can use a Media Center PC for as long as you like. Microsoft is on the verge of dropping support for Windows XP after more than a decade so chances are any Media Center PC will last at least that long for Windows 8. In fact, even if Microsoft stops supporting Media Center with guide data, there are third party providers that can provide it for a modest fee. Media Center will survive for as long as guide data is available from any source.

    His forum name should have clued you into his demeaner (Richard Cranium = Dick Head). ;)
     
  19. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Yeah - I noticed. Talk about living up to your screen name! :D
     
  20. MikeMar

    MikeMar Go Pats

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    Be sweet if a Boxee Box by Samsung came out, or something like that.

    I have a NAS and don't want to run media through a PC that has to be left on. Just want directly from NAS to Media Box. And Boxee Box is awesome for that.
     

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