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Program Data Will Run Out

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by kumaaz99, May 9, 2013.

  1. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    Before doing any other more drastic measures just posted, try just disconnecting the USB for up to 4 hours. (It may only take 20 minutes or so -- monitor the GC date to see when it updates.) This works for me and there's no sense suffering all the other hassle if this relatively simple thing works. On my TiVo HD setup, with no splitter separating TA and TiVo inputs, I still can watch the non-SDV channels while the USB is disconnected.

    I've only had this happen oh maybe once a year or so, but if it was happening more often I would put my TA on a lamp timer.
  2. kumaaz99

    kumaaz99 Member

    Nov 16, 2008
    It's been fine for a week now but I'll start watching the GC Date although I still can't understand it being a TA issue. But since noone responded that they have the issue without a TA that must be it.
    The GC on the one haveing the issue is 2 days before the last download.
    The GC on the 2nd one with no issue yet is the same day as the download.
    Both os these were activated at the same time.
    Another possibility though may be the network signal. One time when I called Tivo the tech mentioned something about a download issue. I ignored this because the download always shows completed sucessfully. I wonder about this because my wireless network connection always shows 45-50% (marginal) but, as I said downloads and transfers between the 2 units fine.
    If anyone without a TA have the problem then I would use a temp hardwire network connection for awhile to check it out. Bur then the signal on the 2nd one without the issue runs only around 40% (marginal).
  3. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I would like for those stating "drastic", to please specify/define "drastic" measures.

    The GC issue existed before TAs came into the picture. They just pretty much insured you'd have problems, if you didn't, or made them even worse, if you already did.

    I speak from experience with TiVo HDs & 2-tuner Premieres, before TAs rolled here. What will make it happen, without the help of a TA to make it happen, is keeping your TiVo VERY busy. If your ToDoList shows day after day, after day, of scheduled recordings, and there isn't at least a 4 hour gap, here and there (longer is better), you don't need a TA to have the end-result, of your TiVo having too many resources tied-up, to devote them to GC, and complete it before those resources are taxed.

    What you don't see, is how often your TiVo begins GC, only to abort it, to free the resources for other things. Recordings take the highest priority, followed by Live TV buffering (even when not watching). All you get to see is when GC manages to complete.

    When I had the older models, and didn't yet have TAs, I made use of two things that can really free up resources, and are not "extreme".

    1. Make use of standby mode when not actually using a TiVo for viewing. This works by shutting down processing of all AV out, freeing resources.

    2. Set up a SP for a minimum-length repeat manual daily repeating recording, on a channel that has no signal (no strength or SNR in DVR Diags, this is absolutely critical), per tuner. Use a different channel for each tuner. Set the manual repeats, with overlapping times, which will show up as SPs, to record no-signal channels, making sure you keep moving them to the bottom of the list, as you add new SPs later, and watch for conflicts that won't allow the repeat recordings to change the channels on all tuners (delete the manual recordings, and recreate again, for a new start time, if need be). Since no signal will be present, the recordings will attempt, abort, and you will see no trace of any such recordings, other than in history. After the abort, the tuners will remain parked on the no-signal channels, stopping the Live TV buffering (nothing to buffer, if there is no signal), until the next ToDoList entry.

    Combine both of these two practices together, and you might even make it work with a TA, with all the freed resources. KMTTG has a function to park tuners in it's swiss army knife, for TiVo, features. It can only do 2 tuners, which is what you need anyway. It's called "tuner parking".

    With TAs & TiVo Premieres, it's harder to make the tuner-parking work, as TiVo has tried to fix mis-tunes to valid channels, making it a bit harder.

    I had luck, post TA, with setting the HDs and Premieres as being both Cable & OTA (repeating GS required). I then placed a terminator cap over the OTA coax nipple, to insure no trace of an OTA signal could get in (overkill), and set my no-signal SPs to OTA channels. It is important to only check enough OTA channels in the lineup, to give each tuner a channel. Once the manual repeat SP is set, you can uncheck the channels, and they will still record. I only advise this method for last-resort, before adding lamp timers, since the added OTA channels are added overhead (but still less than Live TV buffering on all tuners).
  4. randywalters

    randywalters AVS Old Timer

    Oct 21, 2003
    El Segundo,...
    The GC issue has apparently even on the old Series 2 before TAs were even invented, but there's no doubt in my mind that the TA is yet one more cause of it happening.

    Having searched for and reading several threads on the Error S03 problem when my Series 3 started getting this error out of nowhere several weeks ago, I would define "Drastic Measures" to be (A.) Clearing and Deleting Everything, (B.) Replace the Hard Drive, and maybe even (C.) Re-Running Guided Setup (which some have reported throwing their Tivo into an un-recoverable boot loop).

    I'm so glad i read through those threads in their entirety before taking any of the above drastic measures as i would have wiped out my Season Passes at least, or lost all my recordings, or even bricked my Tivo. It turned out that i was able to get my stuck GC to update and clear my S03 Error by simply disconnecting the power and USB cables on my TA for a few hours. Then later i discovered i could un-stick my GC by turing off the power button on the front of my TA.

    Your posts in those various threads were very helpful in getting me to understand why my GC had becomd stuck.
  5. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yeah, I was never trying to sound like I was saying having a TA, alone, couldn't cause the GC issue to happen, even if never affected by it before adding a TA.

    One thing I have found, with Roamios, is that any method involving lamp timers, or otherwise disrupting the TA operational state, can cause the TA to come back online in a state of not being operational, or not fully operational. I don't need any of this to handle GC issues, since the Roamios tend to be fairly immune to them, or at least the three of mine are. Others have reported the same. I have to sometimes power-cycle, due to a TA malfunction, or an issue between the TA and TiVo, requiring a TA cycle.

    Often, I must disconnect the USB link, before power-cycling the TA, or have it come online in an improper state. It happens far to often for me, to automate the power-cycling of the TA to be interaction/babysitting free.

    I have given up on the button, myself. It's not a power button, but merely a way to disable TA control of things (TA standby mode), meaning that if a power-cycle and reboot of the TA are needed, the button won't provide either. Simply allowing the cablecard to resume control, using the TA button, then switching control back to the TA, has worked a few times for me. But, very few times, and often leading to needing a cycle/reboot done, not much longer after all seems fine again. There are times when I'd rather use the button, and wait until a better time to do a true TA reboot/cycle.

    My very own accidental (out of boredom) discovery of the 00000 Zip code & Tiny TiVo lineup, for GS, has been a cure for many ailments, even if sometimes only a temporary reprieve. Using it will help avoid GS loops, if used as the first run of GS, and GC is allowed to complete on the gutted, minimalist, guide data it downloads, as long as GC is given time to complete. The GC-enabling/assisting methods I already posted here will speed that up. Also, most TiVo software, post shipping versions (Roamio, any version) will have the (press enter for) "Installer Express" option (on the second screen of GS), leaning things down more, speeding up completion of GS and GC, and speeding through the process, making the time required for the double GS repeat, minimal.

    It's also worth making sure I mention that rebooting a TiVo, does not reboot the TA. The flashing light on them, while rebooting the TiVo, is merely the TA saying it has lost USB sync/communication with the TiVo (not an indication the TA is rebooting, which has a different flashing, and takes longer than a Roamio does, to reboot).

    It seems like every time I start thinking of abandoning my support/solution-providing activities on TCF, somebody throws me a mention I helped them (or tells others I have been of help), or simply gives their thanks to me. Good timing. I wish you the best of luck in the future.
  6. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

    Jul 6, 2006
    Dayton OH
    IMO anything beyond disconnecting the USB for a while is "drastic", since that has always worked for me on my TiVo HD. My point of posting about this is that anyone encountering the program-data-will-run-out message for the first time should try this relatively simple solution first.

    The blink sequence for the STA1520 when USB communication is not present is 6-blinks-pause.

    It's long been apparent that you can't count on the front button to do anything -- you have to power cycle.

    I routinely restart the TiVo whenever I power-cycle the TA, as it usually is necessary to recover proper overall operation with a valid channel mapping.

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