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Problems w/corrupted downloads in kmttg/Tivo Desktop

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by cubdukat, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    I tried both download speed throttling and putting TiVo in standby mode. Neither had any positive effects for reducing glitches. The only thing standby seemed to accomplish was to speed up transfers. About 20 downloads of the same show for all kinds of combinations of standby, no standby, speed throttling etc. All had corruption points in different spots according to tivolibre -d option. There wasn't a single download with no glitch at all. But at least to me VRD does a great job of cleaning it up such that I rarely notice any problems for decrypted shows.
     
  2. reneg

    reneg Member

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    It's not about the router. It's about the Tivo. Eliminate a potential point of contention, Tivo servicing seemingly benign network communications from other devices.
     
  3. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

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    Consistent with my experience. I went off on a slight tangent, to see if it matters how busy the TiVo is at the time of downloading. Downloaded to .tivo file via kmttg, then converted to H.264 ts via VRD Quick Fix.

    Length of TiVo file = 1:52:00 (every time)
    Download 1: TiVo recording a show, playing a recorded show and downloading .tivo file. Length of ts file = 1:51:15
    Download 2: TiVo playing a recorded show and downloading .tivo file. Length of ts file = 1:51:19
    Download 3: TiVo simply streaming off Comcast and downloading .tivo file. Length of ts file = 1:51:23

    Suggests that there are less corrupt frames for VRD to eliminate when TiVo is less busy with other functions when downloading. But, of course, even under best conditions I still lose 37 seconds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  4. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    The reported numbers not withstanding, I doubt very seriously if you're actually missing 37 seconds.
     
  5. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

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    Can you please explain why you say that?
     
  6. OhFiddle

    OhFiddle Member

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    I think 37 seconds seems plausible. I do not have videoredo, so was not running any of the fixes through that. But the glitches I was seeing were definitely way more than a few frames, there were 2-3 good sized chunks corrupted in a 1 hour show. I'm still not totally able to isolate what the problem is for me. I don't think it's just the mpeg-4 shows, as many are from broadcast networks with higher Mbps. Does kmttg have a way to display which files on the tivo are mpeg 2 and which are mpeg4?

    I think I figured out one thing though. I was never able to get DirectShowDump to work, even though I had an old Tivo Desktop install. Something must have been goofed up with the install when I went from Windows 7 to Windows 10. I was able to get it to un-install successfully and reinstalled and now I can try using DirectShowDump instead of TivoLibre on Transport Stream transfers and see if that makes a difference at all.

    This is slightly annoying because I'm not even trying to archive shows. I just want to watch them on my computer in a different room on the same wired network as the Tivo. That should work great using the Tivo Online website. But, it works horribly, which is why I'm resorting to transferring shows to my computer.
     
  7. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    How many frames removed does VRD report? That's the important part. For there to be 37 seconds missing it would have had to remove 2,218 video frames for a 720p video. (59.94fps)

    If it's not that high then there could be a transmission error that caused the PTS values to jump. TS files don't actually have a length stored anywhere, so they way VRD (and other programs) determine the length is by looking at the time stamps of the first few frames, then seeking to the end and looking at the time stamps of the last few frames, and then calculating the difference to determine the length. But if there is a jump in the time stamps in the middle, or a big chunk of the video missing, then that length will be inaccurate. In that case you could run QSF and have it report 0 frames removed and the length would still change.
     
  8. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    I have never seen more than a few seconds total gone from a 2 hour show. I'm not talking about comparing reported times, I'm talking about watching the edited video.
     
  9. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. That's the only reliable indicator. I base it on having watched a download and I have yet to see any significant skips or missing pieces of video. I do notice a small glitch here and there (probably missing frames) once in a while, but few and far between. I don't think the reported total time by various tools is accurate as Dan would confirm - they are just estimates based on looking at initial and final portions of the video.
    For those not using VRD to clean things up perhaps the problems are more significant with audio sync issues, etc.
     
  10. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

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    Appreciate all comments above. My overall point was that there seems to be less corruption from the download of the .tivo file when you minimize the other activities of the TiVo. Every little bit helps.
    Using my most effective approach, the average is approximately 0.1% of the video frames removed by VRD, and the time reduced by 0.4% to 0.6%. I realize that does not nearly compute with a 59.94 fps, likely for the inaccuracies cited above in computing total time.
    I will tell you though - if you refer back to my earlier table setting out results of trying various approaches to work around the issue, those files that come out several minutes short (e.g. using TivoLibre for decrypt/encode) show major dropouts and freezes (far more than in the downloaded .tivo file), which is what got most of us jumping in to this discussion in the first place. For me, VRD clearly saves the day.
     
  11. OhFiddle

    OhFiddle Member

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    Now that I got my Tivo Desktop install fixed and was able to play the .tivo files on my computer, I can see what you are talking about now. The very brief error in a .tivo file does create a WAY longer corrupted section in the decrypted .ts file. In a one hour long program there were two corrupted areas in the .ts file. I rewound them to mark down the exact time stamp and duration. One totally messed up 26 seconds of the video playback, the second a full 41 seconds was impacted. It wasn't just freezing playback for that length of time. The video during that time was completely unwatchable, but totally fine in the original .tivo file. When I went to the same spots in the .tivo video to find the errors they were both just minor blips lasting just fraction of a second.

    I probably could just watch the .tivo files without converting them now, but I can only get them to play in Windows Media Player. I don't think there is a way to view captions with that method and no simple way to skip past commercials either.
     
  12. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    What are you using to create the .ts file?
     
  13. OhFiddle

    OhFiddle Member

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    I'm using the decrypt option in kmttg. I tried running it multiple ways on the same .tivo file.
    1. using directshow dump instead of tivo decode
    2. using tivolibre instead of tivodecode with the directshow compatibility mode checked also
    3. using tivolibre instead of tivodecode without the directshow compatibility mode checked

    The first two methods created the large blocks of corrupted video I explained in my previous post. The third method was a little different in that once it hit the bad part it didn't get all gray and blocky, but the rest of the video from that point on was really choppy and the audio and video were completely out of sync.

    Using the TS mode should work to transfer both mpeg2 and mpeg4 correct?
     
  14. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    That's why you need to use VideoRedo QS Fix to fix issues in the decrypted .ts file.
     
  15. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    What I don't understand is why the .tivo files play mostly OK using WMP. Does it use something other than the DirectShowFilter to decrypt?
     
  16. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    As I mentioned above the DirectShow filter supports two modes. One of the modes has an issue that when it runs in to a glitch it will stop decrypting until the next GOP. That can turn a minor glitch into several seconds of error. I assume DSD uses the bad mode that's why it has an issue.
     
  17. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense. Guess that's why I really don't have any big issues since I decrypt/qsfix with VRD.
     
  18. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Years ago I wrote a programe (before DSD even) that could decrypt .tivo files using basically the same method WMP uses to play a .tivo file. I never released it becuase I was asked not to by TiVo's legal team. :) Maybe I should dust it off now that they obviously don't care anymore.

    The way mine works is different then DSD and VideoReDo. I wrote a DirectShow filter that is derived from the Microsoft Dump filter, but works in pull/async mode instead of push mode. This makes it so it can be connected directly to the TiVo filter in a DirectShow graph and litterally just dumps the output from the TiVo filter to a file. DSD and VideoReDo both exploit an interface of the TiVo filter that allows it to be treated like a file reader. But as I mentioned above when you're using it that way there are two modes and one of them has an issue that can cause much more corruption then you see when simply playing the file in WMP.

    If I can dig up the source code maybe I'll look in to what it would take to get it going again.
     
    shenders and Mikeguy like this.
  19. OhFiddle

    OhFiddle Member

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    I don't have VideoReDo, so I can't use that option. I keep hoping that the Tivo online website will get fixed so that I don't have to bother at all with transferring and converting the files just to watch them once and delete them. Tivo should just pay all you guys big bucks for your pc software, since they don't have anything workable themselves. Kmttg has been invaluable for fixing problems in the todo list caused by the bad rovi guide data. Finding the problems and fixing them using the Tivo website or software on the box itself is a slow frustrating process. I haven't even tried using it for cutting commercials or auto skip yet either.
     
  20. ***mike212***

    ***mike212*** New Member

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    I have been recording video for may years. My first TV tuner card was a Hauppauge that recorded analog, then a digital Hauppauge card when Comcast switched to digital, then a Ceton Infinitv 4 when Comcast encrypted most of their channels, and now I switched to Tivo, saving money in the long run by not renting Comcast set top boxes. I've only had the Tivo Bolt for less than a month and have started to try to download movies I have recorded on my Tivo Bolt, and have run into the same problems encountered in this thread. Small glitches in the .TiVo files downloaded by kmttg or Archivo or Tivo desktop get magnified when they are converted to a .ts file. One small glitch in the .TiVo files equates to 10's of seconds of missing video. I have a free trial of Videoredo that I am now using to run QS Fix, and then convert that file to a .ts format. This reduces the problem to approximately 200 to 400 frames, and the result while not what I would like makes the video watchable, and so here is my question. I see that kmttg has a QS Fix utility, but that operates after the conversion to a .ts file, which does not help since it needs to run on the .TiVo file first, is there any way for this utility to run on the .TiVo file first.
     
    shenders likes this.

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