1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Breaking News - Word is the sale is coming back... "Our “once in a lifetime” PLS promotion was such a hit, that we’ve decided to launch it again! It will be announced today that the PLS Transfer Sale will be available again for the last 3 days of the month. This will include the BOLT+ 3TB, and 4 refurb units (BOLT 500GB, BOLT 1T, Roamio Pro and the TiVo Mini)."

Problems w/corrupted downloads in kmttg/Tivo Desktop

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by cubdukat, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    8,813
    130
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    Some are but "Timeless" is not one of them.
     
  2. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    So it's just a general TS issue and not specific to H.264 then. Interesting. There is really no way to know for sure if it's the encryption or the muxing because without decrypting the file first the data is just junk. TiVo applies the encryption and remuxes to the desired format as the file is being transferred so it really could be either one.
     
  3. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

    14
    0
    Feb 8, 2016
    For what it's worth, playback of these files from the TiVo is flawless. Also, downloading to a tablet using the TiVo Android app also results in flawless playback. Don't know if that info provides any further clues here?
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Just further proves the point. On the TiVo itself the streams are stored differently and the mobile download/stream feature transcodes the video and then converts to a format called HLS, which technically uses the TS format but uses different encryption and breaks the files in to 10 second chunks, so pretty different from what the PC download thing does.
     
  5. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

    14
    0
    Feb 8, 2016
    Appreciate the enlightenment Dan203!

    Just to share, I seem to get the best results via the following:
    1. Download when TiVo is least active
    2. Download the TiVo file using Archivo (it downloads more slowly than kmttg or TiVo Desktop, which somehow seems to help)
    3. Use VideoRedo, perform Quick Stream Fix on the .tivo file, output file profile is H.264 M2TS
    4. Then do further video editing as needed on the .m2ts file, using a variety of products

    This generally eliminates the glitches with frame deletions at tolerable levels. YMMV. Would be keen to hear of others' methods and results
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  6. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    11,406
    148
    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
    Others have said that if you make sure there are no scheduled recordings happening and you put TiVo in standby mode before transferring that it helps reduce glitches due to TS TiVo downloads.
     
  7. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    8,813
    130
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    While it may reduce them, it doesn't eliminate them. I know this because that's exactly what I do.

    Unfortunately, there's no way to eliminate all other activity.
     
  8. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Weird tha their muxer would be susceptible to realtime CPU usage. Not sure how that could actually matter at all. Unless it has something to do with their special file system.
     
  9. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Does network speed matter? Like if you purposely throttled the download to 10mbps is it less likely to have a glitch?
     
  10. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

    14
    0
    Feb 8, 2016
    Well, it seems to matter in my case, although nothing seems to eliminate all glitches. When I download with kmttg the speed is generally above 170mbps, while with Archivo it is generally around 25mbps. Archivo ends up with less glitches. In both cases, I am talking download of .tivo file.
     
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    There are programs that allow you to throttle bandwidth to certain applications, like netlimiter or netbalancer. Maybe if you slowed down the download even more you could elminate the glitches?
     
  12. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

    14
    0
    Feb 8, 2016
    Happy to give that a try, will need to wait until the weekend to undertake then get back with a post
     
  13. OhFiddle

    OhFiddle Member

    109
    8
    Dec 10, 2006
    I've been having a lot of problems with this too. I thought maybe it was because I updated my kmttg recently, which had not been updated in a while. Video has either stuttering audio, freezes the video player so the controls don't work, or has good sized chunks where it plays super slow with completely gray blocky video and no audio. I am a complete novice with kmttg, and have tried tweaking all the settings mentioned in these threads. Is there a way in kmttg to see which videos HAVE to use transport stream? If that is a major part of the problem I could just not use it for things that don't need it. I haven't tried making sure nothing is recording and the main Roamio is in standby before transferring yet. Everything always plays fine on the Roamio Plus and Minis.

    I wonder if the issues with the muxing discussed above is also why streaming in house through the Tivo online website works so horribly for me, but everything plays wonderfully through the mobile apps. I have tried everything possible to troubleshoot that for over a year and it is too frustrating to even try anymore. Other people don't seem to have problems though. Maybe it's the combination of how my local Comcast handles the encrypting and how the Tivo prepares the recording for transferring or streaming to a computer.
     
  14. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Could be H.264 channels. Did your cable company recently start usingH.264 for some channels? (aka MPEG-4)
     
  15. SlimTrigger

    SlimTrigger New Member

    14
    0
    Feb 8, 2016
    So - after trying a few experiments with different download speeds, I don't think the download speed makes any difference. I may have fooled myself into thinking that previously, partly because I had tried so many combinations to try to get to the best ultimate files.
    Here are a few things I have learned. I took a (limited) sample of three movie files saved on the TiVo, all H.264 ts (MPEG-4), downloaded from Comcast
    For all three movies, I downloaded via (1) TiVo desktop, (2) kmttg, (3) Archivo. The size of the downloaded .tivo file was exactly the same across all three programs. Also, all downloads had pixelations/glitches - but not in exactly the same locations, and not for the same duration.
    I converted the .tivo files to H.264 ts files using (1)VideoRedo (2)kmttg tivolibre, (3)Archivo. Note: I did not perform all possible combinations. I did try tivolibre both with and without DirectShow compatibilty option, but the results were so similar that I am only including the "without" results.

    upload_2017-2-12_10-44-46.png

    Note that in all cases, the output from running VideoRedo Quick Fix always has eliminated the pixelation/glitches that were present in the input file, at the cost of eliminating frames, thus creating skips in the program.

    My preliminary conclusions also reflect the results I have seen visually.
    1. If I decrypt/convert the .tivo file to an H.264 ts file using VideoRedo QuickFix, the number of corrupted frames to be eliminated stays really very small - in each case, the eliminated frames total less than one minute of the movie. The results do not vary much no matter which program I use to download the .tivo file.
    2. If I decrypt/convert using TivoLibre, it does not appear that TivoLibre tries to "fix" the .tivo file in any way, as the time length of the file is not changed in the process. However, when I then run VideoRedo on the .ts file, it corrects a very large amount of errors, to the point where the file is reduced by several minutes, which results in "gaps" more than small "skips" in the played back movie.
    This is consistent with what I have seen, which is - that any corruption in the downloaded .tivo file is greatly magnified in the .ts file created by TivoLibre.
    3. If I decrypt/convert using Archivo (archiving directly to a .ts file), the file first downloads, then automatically goes into Repair mode. As shown above, the final (repaired) .ts file is, once again, significantly shorter timewise than the original .tivo file, with the resultant "gaps" is playback. I suspect this means that Archivo and TivoLibre processes for decrypt/encode are fairly similar.

    So - While still not getting excellent downloads on H.264 ts files, I can get livable results by downloading .tivo files from any of the three software packages, but doing the decrypt/encode to H.264 ts files by using VideoRedo Quick Fix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  16. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    8,813
    130
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I always use kmttg TS downloads + VRD QSfix, and there are slight differences in the corruption depending on whether the source is MPEF2 or H.264. For MPEG, I get "garblng". For H.264, I get jumps. Never see more than a second or so at a time.

    I recently had one MPEG2 recording that simply would not download in TS.

    For MPEG2, I have a choice - d/l in TS and put up with the occasional glitches or d/l in PS and get garbled captions. I have chosen the former.
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    39,861
    1,037
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Ok so if the download speed does not matter then I wonder why stopping recordings and putting the TiVo into standby has any effect? Seems like if it were a resource issue a slower download would have a similar effect.

    In VideoReDo we use a special mode of the TiVo DirectShow filter that works a little different. We discovered a while back that occasionally the filter can hit a glitch that will cause it to stop decrypting frames until it hits a new GOP, which can result in a big chunk of corruption. We then discovered another mode available in the COM interface which is able to recover more quickly from these glitches and results in less frames being removed. That's likely why your VideoReDo decrypted files end up with less of the file being removed.
     
  18. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    8,813
    130
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    Actually, I was surprised by the initial report of download speed having any effect. I suspect it's more a problem of the TS muxing process getting interrupted at the wrong moment(s) and the process getting "confused". Maybe losing part of the buffer, either input or output.
     
  19. reneg

    reneg Member

    763
    21
    Jun 19, 2002
    Has anyone tried putting the Tivo & PC on a network by themselves to isolate the devices from other network traffic?
     
  20. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only TCF Club

    7,598
    367
    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    Buy a better router. I have 14 wired & wireless devices on my network. That includes PC, Laptop, AVR, TV(s), Roamio(2), Mini(2), and a printer. Those are always on, then add some other devices like a Blu-ray and Roku 3.
     

Share This Page