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Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by comer, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    That second one looks like it ought to work, but....

    The discussion of Premiere drives and how to "embiggen" them that I thought I read over at "the site which must not be named" was actually over on the forums at mfslive.org

    http://mfslive.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1500

    where you can see comer picking spike's brain as he works out what eventually becomes jmfs

    Unfortunately a lot of it is still over my head.

    I thought that it was exceeding the 16 partitions per drive rule that made the TiVo think that the added partition was a faulty external, but apparently there's more voodoo involved than that.

    The part where he reports sucess, unfortunately, reminds me of the old cartoon of the professor with a blackboard filled with a long chain of math formulas and equations, and right in the middle there's a line that says "and then a miracle happens".

    Unless we can get comer to weigh in on how jmfs gets away with adding a partition successfully without the TiVo thinking it's an external, I don't know how we're going to figure out how to do it a second time on the same drive.

    Are there shows on the 500 that you can't copy off with TiVo Desktop?
     
  2. jwcatlanta

    jwcatlanta New Member

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    Aug 29, 2010
    No. All shows can be copies off of the drive (I assume since I know that several do copy). That is the job I was trying to avoid. Looks like that is how I will have to proceed with the 2TB upgraded from the original 320GB. I will look at the tables at each step when I do that.

    In the partition modification writeup by kc8apf he removed the 16th partition not the 17th. The 500GB upgraded from the 320 only has 15 partitions. It would seem that the 16th is what I need to remove to make it work, but--

    I just loaded the original 320GB drive and it only has 14 partitions. They are identical to the first 14 on both of these drives.

    What do you think of that?

    P.S. Thanks for the link to MFSLive.org. I will take a look there.
     
  3. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    "In the partition modification writeup by kc8apf..."

    I'm too lazy to search, gotta link?

    Never mind, I had to go look it up.

    He's talking about an S3 drive, not a Premiere drive.

    Apples and oranges, sorta.

    On an S3, the stock drive has 13 partitions, that SQLite thing wasn't added until the S4 platform came out, and that's at least part of what breaks MFS Live and WinMFS where Premieres are concerned.

    On an S3, you can expand by the MFS Tools/MFS Live/WinMFS technique of adding a third MFS pair, which become partitons 14 and 15.

    Although not on the original S3, on the later S3 HD, and S3 HD XL, you can expand again by using jmfs, but only if there's no left over space on the drive onto which you first expanded.

    If there's extra space, the Apple Partition Map scheme has labeled it an Apple Free partition (yes, unpartitioned space is labeled as a partition), and it's considered the 16th partition, at least by jmfs, so jmfs will copy everything, including the partition map that says there are 16 partitions, and it'll add the one partition it does add after the Apple Free partition, and it'll be the 17th partition on the disk. On an S3, this will violate the 16 partitions per disk rule, and the TiVo will interpret that 17th partition as a malfunctioning external drive, or an external drive that's on the wrong drive, and want to "divorce" it, which means it'll delete it from the partition map.

    That's on the later S3's which were apparently changed from the original S3 in the direction they were going to go with the S4 enough that jmfs could work with them even though it was intended for the S4.

    As to the S4:

    jmfs took the original 14 partitions from your 320 and copied them to the 500, and then added the 15th (a third MFS media partition) and did something to make the TiVo like it. That's what it was designed to do.

    But it was apparently only designed to do it once.

    It's that "do something to make the TiVo like it" part where comer's explanation over on that mfslive link I gave either gets vague or goes over my head or both, so if comer doesn't pop back up, I don't know how to do what you want to do.

    So my suggestion is to leave the 500 in the TiVo for now, put the 2TB in a computer, install TiVo Desktop and put its "My TiVo Recordings" folder on that 2TB drive (format the drive as one big NT partition), and store all of your recordings, including future ones, there for now and wait for drive prices to come back down and someone (like, say, comer or spike) to solve the problem.


    I'll read over kc8apf's post a few times and see if I can figure out what he did with the hex editor, and see if I see any clue as to what might be done in your case, but don't hold your breath, 'cause if it happens at all, it won't happen quickly.
     
  4. Mar 1, 2012 #1484 of 2843
    Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

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    So close,...
    I don't know why this didn't work since you have only 16 partitions. This should have been ok but I can explain the usual problem. jmfs leave a little space at the end of the drive and Tivo see's that as a partition. Partition 17 to be exact and that's what it's thinking is your external drive. kc8apf fix was to eliminate the SQL partition (14) but that created another problem. Each partition knows how many partitions there are. Kind of like 1 of 16, 2 of 16, 3 of 16 etc... so just deleting the partition didn't fix it for him. That's where the hex editor came in. He edited each partition header to correct the number scheme so instead of 1 of 17 he made it 1 of 16 which satisfied Tivo from thinking there was an external drive attached.

    There is a very unorthodox fix at the other form using the tools posted in the S4 forum by puffdaddy. You don't need to do all that stuff about copying the image without VAR then creating a 3.5 gig VAR that he later split into VAR and the SQL partition since you don't need the SQL partition. You can if you want try his mfsadd to see if it will expand your drive without leaving that bit of free space at the end.

    @Unitron... if you recall I had this same problem with my 2TB back in this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=477151 that's when you posted your partition map and it didn't have that partition 14. I am starting to wonder if that's what Tivo is objecting to since you and I both have 16 partitions created by JMFS and we're not getting that expanded drive error. I was getting it when I had that SQL partition but I think I used an image you gave me that didn't have it and my 2TB has been working for about 3 weeks now with no reboots... No hacks but also no reboots... :)

    Just a thought...
     
  5. Mar 2, 2012 #1485 of 2843
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    You're comparing S3 HD and HD XL partition maps to Premiere maps.

    I suspect doing so may utimately cause more misunderstanding and confusion than enlightenment.


    The S3s came with the usual 13 partitions, including 2 MFS pairs, 10-11, and 12-13.


    The Premiere added that SQLite partition as partition 14.

    Unfortunately the management at TiVo, Inc, overlooked the need to contact me personally and explain what it is and why it's there, and what it changes where drive size upgrades are concerned.:(

    Come to think of it, they've never really explained anything to me about why MFS partitions come in pairs either, and no one's bothered to let me in on why jmfs can create a single MFS Media partition and the TiVo likes it just fine, but doesn't like a second one, even when it doesn't break the only 16 partitions per drive rule.

    kc8apf was working with a Series 3 HD, not a Series 4, so he(she?) never had an SQLite partition 14 to worry about in the first place.

    What he had was the original 160GB drive copied to a 1TB drive and then expanded (with the additions of MFS pair partitions 14 and 15) with MFS Live, which left a little unpartioned space at the end of the 1TB drive.

    This left him with Apple Free partition 16, because the Apple Partition Map scheme turns unpartitioned space into a special, expendable, kind of partition (only jmfs doesn't know that the rules for it are different, and so preserves it).

    What he did was hex-edit the partition map and the beginning of each partiton (up through 15) to remove any references to partition 16, and then (and at this point I don't know if he looked at the drive again with pdisk or not, and if doing so would have changed anything or not) he used jmfs to copy the 15 partitions on that 1Tb which jmfs could see to a 2TB drive and then let it add a single MFS media partition as partition 16.

    So he wound up with basically what I have on my S3 HD (I don't know if he has a bigger swap partition like I do or not), except I did it by going from the 160 to a 1TB and expanding with WinMFS instead of MFS Live, because where MFS Live leaves a little space at the end that trips up jmfs, WinMFS does not.

    I do not know why one does it and the other doesn't.

    Maybe it's because spike built MFS Live out of the old MFS Tools written by someone else (Jamie?), but (I think) created WinMFS from scratch, but that's just a guess.
     
  6. Mar 2, 2012 #1486 of 2843
    jwcatlanta

    jwcatlanta New Member

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    SQLite is a powerfule database which also works under Linux. It would seem to me that the Premiere uses this for it's database. If so, it would not work if it's partition was removed. I don't know about S3, does it have a SQLite partition?

    Please provide link to the above reference and is the mfsadd program part of MFS Live or other.

    Another question, are there detailed instructions somewhere for MFS Live. I found them for WinMFS but not Live. Thanks.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2012 #1487 of 2843
    Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

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    So close,...
    I was talking about the partition map you posted. It has SQLite on partition 14. While doing some of my farting around I ended up with that same partition 14. I don't recall how I got it but I do know the final product that works doesn't have it. Unitron convinced me it wasn't needed.

    I will have to link you to the other place via PM since it not allowed to be discussed openly here.
     
  8. Mar 3, 2012 #1488 of 2843
    jwcatlanta

    jwcatlanta New Member

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    Aug 29, 2010
    Thanks for the PM. I will look that over.

    FYI, SQLite is in par 14 of the original 320GB (which works), par 14 of the 500GB (which works) and par 14 of the 2TB (which works as a 500GB after I let the Premiere remove the bad "external" it thought was there).

    I am out of time and unless the info causes me to try something else, I have decided to copy off the programs to a desktop and transfer back on the 2TB after I copy, expand and supersize from the original 320GB using JMFS. I plan to do a partition table after each step. That should give a complete set from them for everyone's info.

    I have another Premiere which was upgraded with JMFS from 320GB to 2TB over a year ago and it is working fine. Capacity is 318HD & 2788SD.
     
  9. Mar 3, 2012 #1489 of 2843
    Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

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    May 9, 2007
    So close,...
    I think you have a good plan. If you use kmttg you can remove the commercials and reformat the shows while you make this transition.

    Good luck...
     
  10. Mar 3, 2012 #1490 of 2843
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Use of the MFS Live cd is covered at mfslive.org

    Click on the "Full Guide" link on the left.

    If you're upsizing a Premiere, you'll need to use jmfs rather than MFS Live and WinMFS, but I think everyone should burn themselves a copy of the MFS Live cd anyway.

    Both MFS Live and WinMFS were created before the Series 4 platform came out.

    Consequently, neither are designed to know what to do or not do regarding the SQLite partition, which was introduced with the S4 and is not present on previous model S1s, 2s, and 3s.

    mfsadd is a part of both MFS Live and WinMFS.

    It expands a TiVo drive by adding an MFS partition pair, and up through the S3 models, that was the way to do it.

    With the introduction of the S4 platform we are in uncharted territory and a lot of pioneers have gotten arrows in the back.

    (No disrespect for the original inhabitants of this continent intended)
     
  11. Mar 3, 2012 #1491 of 2843
    CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

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    Has anyone here, upgraded using a WD Caviar Black series HDD? If so what are your reported temps from the TiVo System Info.

    I what to upgrade my sisters Premiere drive, and have several WD Caviar Blacks, but I am concerned about the amount of heat they generate, and HDD prices are still too high for me to consider purchasing a new WD AV-GP or Caviar Green.
     
  12. Mar 3, 2012 #1492 of 2843
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    I'm using 1TB Blacks in S2 DTs, but I'm running extra fans, cause they do get toasty.

    Although I've never had my hands or Torx driver on one, apparently the Premiere mounts the drive "upside down", but without enough room between the "bottom" of the drive and the chassis lid to accomodate a hard drive fan, so if you're going to put an additional fan in there you'll have to be inventive about a mounting location. And since the SATA TiVos don't use the 4 pin Molex power connectors, you'll have a little more of a challenge powering the fan, but if you get that adventuresome, consider T-tap Scotchlock connectors from 3M.
     
  13. jediMac

    jediMac New Member

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    Mar 9, 2012
    I used this tool on a late 2011 Macbook Pro. I was able to successfully burn the CD but I got the failure message referenced upthread. My solution was to use unetbootin to put create a USB stick with the contents of the ISO. I couldn't boot directly from the USB, but as long as I had the stick attached to the MBP at startup, it was able to read the stuff that it needed. Everything worked perfectly from there and I'm now enjoying a 2TB Tivo Premiere.
     
  14. lillevig

    lillevig Hot in West Texas

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    Dec 6, 2010
    San Angelo, TX
    Maybe this has been addressed somewhere before but I'll ask anyway. I know that you can't create a backup image of a Premiere like you can with older Tivo drives. Has anyone worked out a method for running JMFS to copy a Premiere drive to a virtual hard drive on your PC? I'm thinking if that was possible, then the file could be saved and reloaded on a virtual hard drive when you needed to copy to a new hard drive. Not real efficient but maybe better than having to keep a spare piece of hardware lying around.
     
  15. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Somebody responded to me a week or two ago and had done that, forget with which model, but I can't remember which user or which thread.

    It was a concept of which I was previously unaware, but sounds like a pretty slick trick.

    I think they were working around not having enough spare SATA ports or something like that.
     
  16. sdnative1

    sdnative1 New Member

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    Great info and great thread! Thanks! There's also a great video on youtube from "garyadavis" who has a similar method to clone/expand the internal Tivo hard drive. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_KZsJ4vaQ&feature=related[/media]
     
  17. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    If anyone is looking for a cheaper way to upgrade than paying the inflated prices for internal drives now, I have a success story with jmfs and a drive pulled out of an external USB case posted here. External drives are routinely on sale for way less than the equivalent internals, but it can be a crapshoot as to what you get if you open it up.
     
  18. TDuck

    TDuck New Member

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    Jun 8, 2010
    I've just successfully upgraded my Premiere from 320 GB to 2 TB with the easy instructions in the OP.

    Picked up a 2TB WD external off Newegg for just over US$100, hooked it up to my MacBook alongside the OEM drive, booted off the jmfs live CD and did a copy-expand-supersize without a hitch. Then, I just popped the external drive out and hooked it into the Premiere.

    Thanks!
     
  19. T_RJ

    T_RJ New Member

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    I just received a wd20earx as a rma replacement for a dead WD drive.
    I have tried to use WDIDEL3 to set the idle park time but it will not work with this drive.
    I have tried several different computers none will work.
    I am able to copy my 1 TB drive to it without issue.
    Anyone else have problems with WDIDEL3 with the wd20earx drive?
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Do you have the drive connected directly to the motherboard?

    As in, not through an adapter that plugs into a USB jack.
     

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