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Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by comer, Sep 20, 2010.
FWIW, 74.99 on NE thru June 16 w/discount code w/3 day free ship.
I don't own stock in either company, I was just thinking if you had to go over to Raleigh anyway, instant gratification factor.
Doing some further searching to learn from the trials and tribulations of others, it seems that those GigaByte boards that write HPAs tend to do so on drives they think are blank because they don't see a DOS/Windows/PC type partition table, which they won't on a TiVo drive, and really won't on a Series 1 byteswapped.
Unless the drive was used for something else first, in which case there may be remnants of one left.
(somewhere around here I've got a drive that reports PC-type partitions to fdisk and Apple/TiVo partitions to pdisk)
My bad, I misunderstood you. I thought that all CompUSA retail locations were closed (like the one on Glenwood) and that they had only online presence. Not so much, apparently. While West Cary to East Raleigh is not quite instant (and I rarely go that way), it is definitely way faster than waiting for online order, adn I will consider that.
However, until the Gigabyte thing is cleared, I won't be buying the drive.
I looked at my two drives.
One I bought blank, and installed XP on it (using this motherboard). I do not see any hidden partition using Disk Management utility, which manual said I would. It has only one partition of 232.88GB (drive is supposedly 250GB).
The other drive I got as a part of a (dirt cheap) external drive package, used for a little bit as external storage with cable co. DVR, then when the case went bad, salvaged the drive and put it in. Has one partition of 232.82GB.
So, either the motherboard used them both for HPA, or neither.
Now I am unclear whether the board would write to both Tivo and blank drive, or only one of them, or neither; I also have no idea if it is better to leave the existing OS drive in or not. Probably too risky to try the upgrade with the info I have so far.
Also, looking around, I noticed that there are some Gigabyte motherboards that use HPA for virtual dual bios; this one has actual dual bios, so it would not do that.
So I'm guessing you didn't see their flyer in Sunday's News & Observer.
I did because I got there before the coupon stealers cleaned out the racks, but I'm about a 3 hour drive from Glenwood Ave, so I'm not really in a postition to just pop by there.
Meanwhile Gov. Perdue says she's extremely disappointed in your failure to help stimulate the state's economy.
I am a midst doing the upgrade. I got a WD20EARS connected it internally in my PC, used an external docking station for the tivo drive. They both got recognized fine. So now I chose copy and it is sitting on the screen saying copying non-tried blocks. Is there something that would show progress?
I do not see anything. Is that normal? Does it matter I have probably 18-20 hours of HD recordings?
Assuming you're using jmfs live cd for the upgrade, you might want to watch this video (2 part) for insight. It takes significantly longer using a USB dock station.
thank you (I did not even think of checking youtube).
I had downloaded the previous version of jmfs image (I re downloaded)
I decided to forgo the dock station (although it is an e-SATA) and connected directly to my motherboard. It worked like a charm. I already installed it in my Premier and it works fine. I did do the supersize as well.
Thank you folks for your support and kudos to the creator or the process.
After some investigation, it looks like the issues with these motherboards have nothing to do with Xpress Recovery2 (that one has to be manually installed and invoked), but with BIOS backup to hard drive. The associated HPA is supposed to be small - 2113 sectors (but enough to hose the drive, of course). My motherboard does not have an option to turn it off, and when I ran hdparm, it confirmed HPA of exactly that size on primary drive. Secondary drive does not have HPA, but that drive was put in there already partitioned (from a failed external enclosure), so I can’t be sure that it would not do the same kind of thing if it were considered blank (i.e. I am not completely sure that sacrificial drive thing will work). Also, some people say that this BIOS backup may not be on the drive with first SATA port (as Xpress Recovery2 is), but on the drive that initializes first (presumably frequently the same thing, but not always).
My daughter’s computer has a slightly newer version of the motherboard (GA-EG45-UD2H), and that one also had 2113-sector HPA on its only drive. However, that one has a BIOS option “Backup BIOS to HDD” (not in the manual, by the way), which seems to be exactly what is needed (it is on by default). There is a potential issue that some say this option does not really work.
I am left with several choices:
1. a) Hook up both drives using USB (get SATA->USB). On the up side, it should not create HPA on those. On the down side, it is slower, and I think wdidle does not work with USB; I’d really like to set it to more than 8s, it seems that it would be good for longevity sake.
1.b) get non-WD drive that does not need wdidle, the rest like a)
2. Hook up blank drive using eSATA enclosure, and hook up Tivo drive using USB. Maybe wdidle will work? Anybody knows?
3. Put blank drive inside computer, and hook up Tivo drive using USB. This would be handy, as then wdidle thing should work. On the down side, HPA may be created on the blank drive, but if it is created on a blank drive before jmfs is even started, that should not prevent it from working fine in Tivo, right???
4. Put blank drive inside computer, and hook up Tivo drive using eSATA. Similar to 3, but faster. Downside - slightly increased chance of Tivo drive getting hosed with HPA.
5. Put both drives in the computer, leaving original HDD with HPA in as well, and hope that either “Backup BIOS to HDD” setting will work, or that motherboard will not feel the need to do backup on more than one drive.
This is more of an FYI message. I decided to use the Seagate ST2000DL003 2TB drive in my Tivo Premiere (320G) upgrade. I used the CD to copy, expand and supersize on the drive and I saw no errors or issues at any point. When I installed it and powered up the Tivo it appeared stuck on the "Welcome powering up screen". After many minutes I power cycled and saw the same result. so i left it be while I tried the same process on a second drive (maybe the drive was a bum). Next morning saw the same results with a new drive but on the 3rd try (literally 3rd time was a charm) it proceeded past the power up screen and all the way into the tivo welcome video and menus. After several restarts it appears to be able to always boot correctly. I'm not sure why it froze on the first two attempts but hopefully I won't see that condition again. Thanks again for the easy utility. Hopefully someday we'll get USB 3.0 drivers in Linux so it doesn't take 6 hours to copy using USB2.
Do you have a USB-Bluetooth dongle installed in your TiVo Premiere? That's been known to cause similar issues. Unplugging that before rebooting can help.
When Unitron talked about Gigabytre MB's causing problems, I ignored it as I used a GA-EP35-DS3P MB for 90% of my testing JMFS. It has Express Recovery I and I never had a problem with my copies or stock drives. And as you said ER has to be manually invoked, I suppose it is possible to happen otherwise.... but who knows.
Now that you mention the Bios backup to HDD option, I checked the manual and that option is not available. Since I no longer have that MB I can't check to see if it really is there.
I also have a GA-EP45-US3P and on page 51 that option is there.
Since I'm using this for a server, I went and checked the bios.... except that option is not there! So, I checked the bios version and saw no mention of that feature being removed.
I also have a GA-X58A-UD3R with that option:
Whoa, now it is disabled by default. There must have been a reason for this setting being changed from one board to another.
I making a WAG, if you disable that option it will probably allow JMFS to do its job with no problems.
I'm not brave enuff to try it on my X58 MB since that is the one I'm using now And I doubt that I ever changed that setting in the bios.
Cant' trust the manual.
GA-EG45M-DS2H: manual does not mention this at all, no related bios setting, but there is such a thing, as motherboard definitely created an HPA; hence, no way to turn this "feature" off.
GA-EG45-UD2H: manual does not mention this at all, but there is a related bios setting, on by default; this setting should turn this off (but who knows for sure). My motherboard created HPA, but I did not change the option initially, so I can't tell if the setting works.
Can you check your hard drives with hdparm -N option and see if there are HPAs?
The manuals for either of my GigaByte boards only talk about backing up BIOS to floppy, although both have dual BIOS chips, and the only mention anywhere in the manual of using the hard drive for storage by the board itself (as opposed to the OS or the chump at the keyboard) is the whole XpressRecovery2 thing.
I think what happens is that it automatically tries to set aside room (the HPA) for the XpressRecovery2 file or files without waiting to see if you actually decide to use that feature, or maybe it sets aside an area to leave itself a note about where and whether it has an area set aside for it.
Apparently it happens at boot, and gets written to what it thinks will be the OS's boot drive, so it starts with the IDE/PATA controllers looking for a drive that hasn't been "OS'ed" yet, (and since it's looking for a DOS/Windows/IBM-compatible PC type partition table, a Tivo drive will look blank to it), and if no PATA drives it starts down the list of SATAs.
You can undo it with hdparm on a different brand board, but on that same GigaByte board the operation will fail, so apparently the board takes an active part it defending the HPA.
So if you have to use a GigaByte board, first attach a "sacrificial" drive (it can be your regular OS booting drive) to the place highest up the food chain (start with IDE Primary Master), boot from one of the Linux-based "live" cds (Parted Magic might be a good choice to have on hand), run hdparm -N /dev/driveinquestion to make sure you do have an HPA on that drive (you can use Parted Magic to shrink partitions to make room at the end of the drive, say about 10GB).
Then maybe it'll be happy with that and not mess with any of the other drive positions/ports. Maybe.
If I knew more for sure about this I'd start a separate thread just for HPA warnings.
On both of my motherboards, hdparm -N reports HPA of the size of 2113 sectors (~2MB) on primary drives (one has only primary drive, the other has a drive that was already partitioned before it got put in). 2113 sectors exactly matches what some people have reported happened to their drives and messed up their RAID configs. This fits BIOS backup, and is way too small for Xpress Recovery purposes, so I don't think there is much mistery as to the purpose of these HPAs (and some versions of motherboards actually do mention it in the manual).
What is unclear, as you mentioned, is whether leaving those already HPAed drives connected will satisfy the board so that it will leave other drives alone. Some people have reported that this HPA creation occured not necessarily on the first drive, as measured by the IDE/SATA port #, but rather on the drive that initialized first. I don't know if those two ways of finding first drive always match. If they do not necessarily match, there is a possibility of HPA appearing on any drive connected by IDE/SATA at the boot time.
Will jmfs recognize drives connected after the boot is over (either through eSATA or USB)? Waiting until boot is over to connect the drives should guarantee the potential HPA creation step does not see them.
I took a look at some of my drives this morning using Parted Magic and it found no HPA on the X58 machine 4 drives, nor on any of the stock Tivo drives.
I then ran JMFS and shelled out and used mfslayout.sh and each of the stock tivo drives have the correct amount of partitons and KB matches earlier results of my testing JMFS with those drives.
Interesting. I ran Parted Magic and its Partition Editor mentions no HPA or secondary partition of any kind on the primary drive, and reports "total 488395055 sectors".
hdparm -N shows that 488395055 sectors available, and 4888397168 total, HPA enabled, which seems to indicate an HPA of 2113 sectors.
If I read this correctly, it appears that, in my case, hdparm -N is better in showing HPA than Parted Magic. Your case is probably different, since the other stuff did not find anything fishy either.
I ran Parted Magic on my EP45 and it showed 2 partitions cuz I installed W7 64 bit and it asked if it could create a 100 meg partition before partitoning the rest of the drive. It is not referenced as HPA. And it has folders and files in there.
If you Google 'hpatool.zip' that tool is supposed to show and allow deleting HPA partitions. Its on the Gigabyte UK community forum. I'm not too enamored on trying this software on my X58 with 2 300G raptors in Mirror 1 for some strange reason. I may try it in the morning on the EP45.
I'm just using that computer as a server.
As far as JMFS, yes you can boot into it and add drives afterward. You just have to hit the (R)efresh key and let it scan for the drives. I know it works for USB.... never tried it for ESATA.
The MFS Live cd (v1.4) boots to a command line interface and hdparm is available as soon as you type hpdparm and hit Enter.
On the Parted Magic cd, one usually boots to the graphical interface with the icons and use of the mouse and all that, but you can click on the same thing that let's you reboot or shut down and there's an option to back out to a clunky, "early days of DOS"-looking menu, and from there you can get to the pure command line and invoke hdparm.
If I remember right that's also where you can start "testdisk", which isn't much use for TiVo drives, but can be a lifesaver if your computer's drive gets scrambled.
Following up on the "hpatool.zip" clue, it seems that GigaByte UK used to have an article that explained some of this, so naturally they've moved it or taken it down, but on a UK forum a user that seems to know whereof he speaks says that the board re-writes the BIOS to the HPA every time it boots.