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Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by comer, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Mar 10, 2011 #761 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    I'd pull the Ethernet cable to see if things improve, but I've only experienced issues when accessing the network...otherwise it runs fine. That yours runs okay with the network basically off is worrisome. FWIW I don't think Supersize would impact performance with respect to freezing, etc. or we would have seen that in earlier upgrades.

    I know TiVo Level 2 folks can read individual DVR logs, but I only know enough to be dangerous so I'm not sure if any logs are viewable if you pull and read the drive. My 2TB drive is less than 50% full so it doesn't seem to be a capacity sort of thing. I didn't know about the Netflix "bug". I'll have to read up on that...thanks for the tip. :up:
     
  2. Mar 11, 2011 #762 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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  3. Mar 11, 2011 #763 of 2880
    Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks!

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  4. Mar 11, 2011 #764 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    I hope an update will fix it, but based on TiVoJerry's description, the S3/HD issue was caused by using Netflix and experiencing a lost network connection...which as far as I can tell isn't what's happening with our Premiere. The first time TiVo rebooted when I clicked on Netflix. I suppose there could have been a coincidental loss at that moment, but it doesn't seem likely. The second time I accessed and played Netflix Instant Queue content without any problem...the problem showed up after returning to normal TiVo menus. They had no background and no recordings would play until the unit was rebooted.

    Both situations tell me that it's Netflix/TiVo related, but not due to a lost network connection.

    Whatever the case, I would indeed like to see them address the issues, whatever they are.
     
  5. Mar 12, 2011 #765 of 2880
    MoneyMINTR

    MoneyMINTR New Member

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    anyone able to do this with an imac? I don't have a PC for SATA support.
     
  6. Mar 13, 2011 #766 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Yes, you can use two individual USB docks or adapters (not a dual dock). If you search you can probably find a couple of posts from folks that have done this successfully.
     
  7. Mar 13, 2011 #767 of 2880
    ThreeSoFar

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

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    The jmfs bootable CD works only in the Intel Macs, though. Or at least that's what I thought.
     
  8. Mar 13, 2011 #768 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    That's possible, but I'm not sure why that would be the case since it's a Linux based program. It would be good to know though.
     
  9. Mar 13, 2011 #769 of 2880
    ThreeSoFar

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

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    There's certainly Linux kernels compiled to work on the older processors (G4?), and the jmfs source could be compiled for it. But the jmfs image has only the one bootable kernel, Intel.
     
  10. Mar 13, 2011 #770 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Ah, I did not know that.
     
  11. Mar 13, 2011 #771 of 2880
    ftballpack

    ftballpack New Member

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    Mar 13, 2011
    Hey guys. I am debating which western digital hard drive to buy.

    I am looking at buying either a WD20EURS or a WD20EVDS. I would buy the WD20EURS but I am concerned about the whole advanced formatting issues.

    I currently have a THD with a 1tb drive, upgraded using winMFS and a stock Tivo Premiere. I plan on upgrading the Premiere now and the THD in the future.

    Are their any known issues with using the WD20EURS and the THD together?

    Which drive is the better buy guys? I can't decide. Newegg is selling them for a $10 difference.

    The EURS has a 64mb buffer compared to 32mb with the EVDS......

    power consumption:

    WD20EURS: Read/Write @ 4.5W, Idle @ 4.0W
    WD20EVDS: Read/Write @ 5.9W, Idle @ 4.9W

    but does the advanced formatting slow the THD or the Premiere down at all by installing an advanced format drive such as a WD20EURS?

    I am so confused.....



    Thanks guys,
    Scott
     
  12. Mar 13, 2011 #772 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Welcome to the forum. Nothing to be confused about, either drive will work fine. "Formatting issues" are not relevant to TiVo. Both drives are A/V dedicated drives so no need to make any adjustments. Both of these drives are being used successfully by folks here.

    FWIW they are both cheaper at amazon.com and Amazon has a "friendlier" return policy.

    http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digit...YPPW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300050098&sr=8-1

    http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-WD20...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1300050472&sr=1-2

    Happy upgrading!
     
  13. Mar 13, 2011 #773 of 2880
    dlbewley

    dlbewley New Member

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    I upgraded my Premiere XL to a 2TB WD20EARS, from Amazon for $79, without too much trouble:
    tofu.org/drupal/node/180

    I was unable to see the drive using the Hitachi Feature Tool, so I did not adjust the AAM. I can't hear the drive anyway. Intellipark seems to be a non-issue for me as well.
     
  14. Mar 13, 2011 #774 of 2880
    ftballpack

    ftballpack New Member

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    Thanks for the info guys. I am thinking I am going to go with the WD20EURS in my Premiere. Although the WD20EURS is more expensive than the WD20EARS, I personally like the reduced power use and at the same time, the 64 mb buffer should at least in theory result in a faster working drive with less issues than the WD20EVDS.

    Also, from what I understand, advanced format drives should actually help to reduce drive errors, which is one of the reasons's why hard drive makers are going with advanced format drives in the new larger drives they are making. So, it would seem to be a natural choice to go with an advanced format drive if they do not slow the Tivo down at all.

    I would have no problem doing adjustments to the WD20EARS but, a drive that costs $30-40 more and is made to run continuously should at least in theory be better able to handle the rigors of being in a Tivo, running all the time. So once again, this is why I am thinking of getting the WD20EURS.

    Please reply back if you guys have experienced anything different or know of anything different with these specific drives, as I do not currently own any of the drives and it is is hard to compare the difference with the way drives "should be" as to the way they actually function.
     
  15. Mar 14, 2011 #775 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Other than possibly using slightly more or less power there isn't any difference between the two drives with respect to using them in TiVo. The demand TiVo puts on a hard drive is minimal compared to other applications.

    As is often mentioned on the TCF, TiVo can't and/or doesn't take advantage of any of the advanced A/V drive features designed primarily for security systems (IntelliSeek, Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL), SilkStream, IntelliPark, etc.).

    With respect to the cache, there's no advantage there either. Your TiVo HD has a WD1600AVBS OEM hard drive with 2MB of cache. Your TiVo Premiere has a WD3200AVVS OEM hard drive which has 8MB. TiVo doesn't require anything more nor does anything more enhance performance.

    Otherwise the drives (including the WD20EARS) are basically the same...retail prices do not reflect performance or MTBF (mean time between failures) percentages.

    If you want to get the best out of your new hard drive, reduce any heat by keeping TiVo well ventilated and be sure it's on a UPS (like this one: http://www.amazon.com/APC-Back-UPS-shutdown-software-UPS-BE350G/dp/B001985SWW/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_title_1). Power surges, spikes, brown-outs and outages cause more hard drive data corruption and failures than any day-to-day use.

    Either choice is fine...whatever you feel comfortable with.

    Also, be sure to put your original hard drives on the shelf as backups. If one of your new drives fails you can always slip the original back in and be back up and running right away plus you can use the original to image a new hard drive any time.
     
  16. Mar 15, 2011 #776 of 2880
    ftballpack

    ftballpack New Member

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    So, what you are saying rich is that the only real difference I would experience between the two drives is the minor electrical use. Since the WD20EARS can be manually set to the same settings the WD20EURS defaults at. I am somewhat disappointed to hear that the hard drive + tivo together negates all of the extra features of the WD20EURS that help to keep the drive running well.

    So how many years would I have to run my premiere with a WD20EURS in it compared to the WD20EARS to recover the extra cost of the WD20EURS over the WD20EARS in electrical savings? Would it likely be longer than the estimated life of the drive?
     
  17. Mar 15, 2011 #777 of 2880
    Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks!

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    Yes. You're putting more thought into this than TiVo's own engineers likely did.
     
  18. Mar 15, 2011 #778 of 2880
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    As Fofer says, no need to over think this. It's not a big deal either way. Both drive's life expectency is about the same so it really depends on if you want to take the time to adjust the AAM on the WD20EARS (which is really quite simple using HDDScan since you'll have the drive connected to your computer anyway). But since you're giving this some thoughtful consideration...here are a few more things to think about.

    With respect to the other features being utilized or not, and how long a drive will last, probably a better way to look at it is that TiVo doesn't necessarily need them nor would they probably improve longevity. As mentioned, although it is running 24/7 TiVo never powers up or off (stressing a drive) and places a very low demand on hard drives overall. Drives used in enterprise service (servers, etc.) have some of the heaviest demand with potentially huge amounts of data I/O activity. Security DVR's with a dozen or more inputs and often multiple outputs would benefit from some of the WD's A/V features. AFAIK it's never been documented here, but the only advantage an A/V dedicated drive might have (besides being quieter) would be their ability to handle I/O errors by avoiding multiple reads when it encounters data issues like "normal" hard drives do. Rather than trying to repeatedly recover a read error, they're designed to more quickly "skip over" them.

    However TiVo hard drives have a maximum of three input sources (2 x TV tuners and 1 x IP) and only one output. Generally the input source is steady even with the large amount of data HD requires. It does some housekeeping in the background periodically, but that's about it. At most it's doing four or five things at any one time, usually less. So as compared to other applications, TiVo's "work" is relatively relaxed.

    That's not to say that drives don't wear out, they do. But a TiVo drive is more likely to fail due to manufacturer defects (bad sectors, head positioning mechanism issues, etc.) than to have the ball bearings seize up (and if they're about to do that you'll hear it long before they do). It's also true that Hi Def TiVo's put more strain on a drive than the original Series1's. My iMac puts more stress on a hard drive than my old DOS based computer. Drive technology has improved immensly over the years as well.

    So if what you're worried about is replacing a hard drive, picking between one or the other of the drives you've suggested won't make much difference. One could fail in 90 days or run for years. The WD10EVCS I have in our Series3 has been rock solid for about three years now. But it could fail tomorrow. However drives rarely just quit. Generally there will be warning signs...glitches, reboots. PQ problems. If/when that starts happening you can run some of TiVo's built-in diagnostics called "Kickstarts" (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2) and either fix what ails it or prepare to replace it. That's why keeping the original drive on the shelf as a backup is a good investment...you can always image a new drive.

    That's probably TMI but with respect to TiVo, recordings are probably more valuable than the drive itself. My "policy" is to replace the drive when the warranty is about to run out. In the case of WD GP drives, that's three years. When the time comes, pop the drive out clone it to a new one (using dd or some other program) and you're good for another three years or so. Which reminds me...it's about time to replace our Series3's hard drive. Thanks for that. :)

    Regarding your last question...my wife has the chemical engineering degree and I leave all of the "mathy" stuff to her. ;) My WAG would be "yes".

    Buy a good drive, keep TiVo well ventilated, use a UPS and you should be fine. :up:
     
  19. Mar 15, 2011 #779 of 2880
    ItsRounder

    ItsRounder New Member

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    My original drive failed so I took a 500GB drive that was laying around and used it while waiting to get my 1TB replacement. The original drive was a 320GB drive. I used jmfs to copy to the 500GB drive and expand it. Now that I've copied the 500 to the 1TB I'm finding that it's stuck at 500GB and I can't expand it. Is there any way to get around this or because I expanded the 500GB or am I now stuck with that?
     
  20. Mar 16, 2011 #780 of 2880
    generaltso

    generaltso Active Member

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    When I installed a WD20EVDS in my TPXL, I set wdidle to 5 minutes. I didn't think it was related, but any time the slide's bluetooth dongle was connected during a reboot, the box would hang on "Almost There". If I unplugged the dongle, it would boot up fine. Just for the heck of it, I opened up the TiVo and set wdidle to "Disabled". Low and behold, the box now boots normally with the bluetooth dongle attached. I've only tested it twice since it takes a full 10 minutes per reboot.

    Do you suppose it's possible that the drive could really be idle for 5 minutes during a normal boot? Doesn't seem likely.
     

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