1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by comer, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Feb 1, 2011 #621 of 2853
    Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

    82,882
    515
    Oct 29, 2000
    So we're talking about Intellipark. Do those folks then recommend turning it ON for newer drives (apparently) that come with it already disabled? Sorry, I'm confused.
     
  2. Feb 1, 2011 #622 of 2853
    DrTivol

    DrTivol New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 5, 2005
    for the newer WD drives (at least some of the models) it's on and it's set to 8 secs. Now this of course was interfering with the soft reboot and the solution was either A) set it to 300 secs or B) disable it. And then option C) was to leave it alone as some were perhaps not having the issue (??? i'm guessing here).

    And now i see that people say if you don't do anything then you hit this load cycle limit rather quickly --- mainly because we are using the drives with linux on tivo and this wasn't necessarily the intended usage. Result here is that people think the drive will fail sooner. Finally, there is also postings that completely disabling it will cause the above problems mentioned.

    So my question from above is what is the intellipark set to with the current drives that are being shipped with Tivo Premiere's? Is it 8sec, 300sec, disabled. I realize it's an AV drive but if it has intellipark then what's it set to?
     
  3. Feb 1, 2011 #623 of 2853
    DrTivol

    DrTivol New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 5, 2005
    Here are a couple really nice links:

    http://chbits.blogspot.com/2009/07/fixing-wd-gps-drives-with-wdtler-and.html

    and this one:

    http://webdiary.com/i/?tag=wdidle3

    In this one they have a quote from WD:

    Quote:WD drives are designed to reduce power consumption, in part by positioning the heads in a park position (unloading the heads) and turning off unnecessary electronics, resulting in substantial power savings. WD defines this mode as Idle 3.

    Some utilities, operating systems, and applications, such as some implementations of Linux, for example, are not optimized for low power storage devices and can cause our drives to wake up at a higher rate than normal. This effectively negates the power-saving advantages of low-power drives, such as WD GreenPower™ models, and artificially increases the number of load-unload cycles. Although the increase in load/unload cycles is within design margins (drive has been validated to 1 million load/unload cycles without issue) a balance between life of product, logging requirements, and low power consumption can be achieved depending on what is critical to the system. Present SMART normalized values have not been re-normalized to 1 million cycles so advisory reporting on this attribute does not mean failure of product.


    As soon as i finish copying my drive i'm going to run the wdidle3 utility on the original drive and see what the intellipark setting is (unless of course it doesn't have this feature).
     
  4. Feb 2, 2011 #624 of 2853
    Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

    82,882
    515
    Oct 29, 2000
    Ugh, I don't want to be fearful of my drive dying in 3 months, taking all of my recordings with it, because I didn't set Intellipark properly.

    Yes, I'm dying of curiosity to know what the original drive is set at...
     
  5. Feb 2, 2011 #625 of 2853
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,600
    4
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    FWIW, my WD20EVDS was set to 8 sec. I disabled it. Now I wonder if 300 sec would have been better.
     
  6. Feb 2, 2011 #626 of 2853
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,897
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Wow! Things can really get crazy around here! :eek:

    Bottom line for DrTivol's OP...if your WD20EARS has a manufacture date of December 10, 2010 there's a very high probability that you won't need to make any adjustments to the Intellipark setting.

    FWIW the "cut off date" (for lack of a better term) for having to deal with the Intellipark issue with WD GP drives is September 15, 2010. It was a little before then that WD made an adjustment to their GP drive line's firmware which allowed them to play nice with TiVo once more. So even though the Intellipark setting remains at the default 8 seconds, drives made after that date (and a few before - as far back as March 2010 on their A/V GP drives) have no problem booting up and will reboot from a menu restart normally as attested to by a number of folks here.

    Since TiVo is never idle (the buffer is recording 24/7 on both tuners) the Intellipark feature is never implemented and never cycles

    Of course there may be an exception to the rule but it hasn't reared it's ugly head so far. The only way to find out is to perform the jmfs upgrade install the new drive and boot it up and then perform a menu restart. If it boots up and reboots normally life is good.

    If you're using a something other than an A/V dedicated drive (like a WD20EARS) and you want to enjoy the same acoustics as the original TiVo drive you can run HDDScan and adjust the AAM to 128. More in Section IV, #32 here:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

    Hope that helps.
     
  7. Feb 2, 2011 #627 of 2853
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,897
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    The Intellipark default setting on all WD GP hard drives is 8 seconds. For drives manufactured prior to 09/15/10 I always recommended using wdidle3.exe to adjust the setting to 5 minutes (/s300) having read a few horror stories about disabling it completely. That always took care of the boot/reboot issue without any apparent ill affects with respect to drive function or lifespan.

    It's an easy fix for anyone wanting to change it again. Since it's a basic firmware change it won't affect any data.
     
  8. Feb 2, 2011 #628 of 2853
    DrTivol

    DrTivol New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 5, 2005
    Rich,

    I appreciate your input here. I'm past the soft-reboot reason and the fact that i have a newer drive. So this one was leaning me towards not running wdidle3.exe . Then i ran across all the discussions about the load cycle count. This one was then convincing me to run it. Finally, i threw my hands up in the air when i read the thread that completely disabling it could cause further problems.

    You are right that having the drive used in a DVR causes a continuous stream to be generated (written and possibly read), however the part i'm not sure about is how often does that data get written to disk. The threads outside of the tivocommunity are usually using the drive in a NAS and RAID mode with Linux. The claim the GP drives aren't designed for linux and this is where the 8 sec issue comes into play.

    So i currently have the same opinion as you: that the continuous writing of the video stream is probably not allowing the intellipark to kick in. And that got me to wondering what the original HD is set to in the Tivo? I agree the default is 8 secs, so i was just thinking that maybe WD sets it differently for the drives they ship to TIVO. If they don't then this should be a NON ISSUE --- leading the discussion back to running wdidle3.exe just for the soft-reboot issue.

    by the way, for the life of me i can't seem to create a CD or USB mem stick with wdidle3.exe. I'd prefer a USB option. I followed the instruction in the FAQ and on other webpages after searching. Non of these are working for me.
     
  9. Feb 2, 2011 #629 of 2853
    DrTivol

    DrTivol New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 5, 2005
    Can't you also run right from the copy/expand/supersize boot disk:

    hdparm -M 128 /dev/sda
     
  10. Feb 2, 2011 #630 of 2853
    DrTivol

    DrTivol New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 5, 2005
    O.k. i finally got the wdidle3.exe boot USB stick going (must have been the storm in Chicago last night!).

    So i just ran it on the original WD3200AVVS (WD AV-GP) drive:

    c:> wdidle3.exe /R

    and the response is that the timer is disabled!!! My drive was manufactured on 09 Dec 2010.

    This does it for me!!!!

    Initially on my new drive i tried:

    wdidle3.exe /D and it says that it set it to 62 minutes .... hmm

    searched around and found that if i run:

    wididle3.exe /S[10000000000] (ten zeros) it completely disables it. So that's what i did. Now it's time to fire it up.
     
  11. Feb 2, 2011 #631 of 2853
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,600
    4
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    This is where I get confused. If the Intellipark feature never activates in a TiVo because the drive is never idle (except when rebooting), how can there be horror stories about disabling it completely? What harm could that do? Have people maybe attempted to change this setting on an incompatible drive, with its firmware data values stored in different locations? That could certainly cause problems.
     
  12. Feb 2, 2011 #632 of 2853
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,897
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Your first question is a really good one and if someone here doesn't chime in could probably be answered by someone on one of the hard drive forums. I've read stories about folks disabling Intellipark and then running a SMART diagnostic to find that the load cycles skyrocket. I have suspicions as to why that could happen, but my thoughts have no foundation in anything more than theory. As to your second question, I don't think that's possible, but again, I'd only be guessing.

    Simply extending the timeout seems the logical step to prevent hanging at boot or reboot. Folks that have extended it haven't reported load cycle increases, etc. Whether or not those load cycles will eventually impact the performance or a drive's actual lifespan I don't know.

    FWIW WD GP drives never had this problem until the autumn of 2009 when WD changed their firmware. TiVo itself was caught off guard when people's TiVo HDXL's began hanging after a version update. It took them about 60 days to resolve the problem with another version update. Along about March 2010 WD changed the firmware on their dedicated A/V GP drives so that Intellipark became a non-issue for TiVo upgrades. It wasn't until early September 2010 that they made (ostensibly) the same firmware change to the rest of their GP hard drive line.

    Folks have actually installed pre-September 15, 2010 drives that have booted up normally, then tried a soft reboot and encountered the hang...and then tried to power cycle them (which used to work) and they hung then as well. It wasn't until they adjusted the Intellipark timeout that the drives would boot up and reboot from a menu restart. So it would seem that Intellipark was actually not active until the drive is first booted up on those particular drives. Once the timeout was extended they booted up and rebooted fine.

    In other circumstances the drives (again pre-Sept 15 '10) wouldn't boot up at all. Once the Intellipark setting was changed (timeout extended or disabled) they booted and rebooted normally.

    So it's been an odd road this past year-and-a-half or so. The good news is that whatever the issue was seems to have been resolved in early September, 2010. To date everyone that has performed an upgrade using a WD GP hard drive (both standard and A/V) manufactured after September 15th have not had to adjust the Intellipark setting and have not encountered the initial boot or soft reboot (menu restart) problem.
     
  13. Feb 2, 2011 #633 of 2853
    DrTivol

    DrTivol New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 5, 2005
    Rich,

    That's all great and would agree 100%. However, why does Tivo's original HD have the intellipark timer disabled?
     
  14. Feb 2, 2011 #634 of 2853
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,600
    4
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    OK, thanks. I thought Intellipark was what initiated the park/load cycles, thus causing hangs when rebooting. I agree with you that, disabled or not, Intellipark should not be a factor in a drive that is continually writing video data. Eight seconds of HD video would be about 12MB, right? Could the old firmware have been so wrongheaded as to park the heads while the buffer was being filled? Of course, that would cause skyrocketing load cycle counts with Intellipark enabled, not disabled, so I still don't understand.

    If I open the box again, maybe a good compromise would be the 300 seconds that you mentioned. Or (considering the time a TiVo takes to boot), maybe 600 seconds would provide a better cushion, if 600 is allowed.
     
  15. Feb 3, 2011 #635 of 2853
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,897
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Well I finally found/made time to run Comer's program to upgrade our TiVo Premiere XL to 2TB's...happily and successfully! Details (pretty much like everyone else's):

    - Hard drive: WD20EARS (from Amazon for $79.99 AR last month)
    - Manufacture date: 10/14/10
    - AAM: 254
    - Intellipark timeout: 8 seconds
    - Connections: Direct to 2 SATA ports on MB (older Dell PC w/2.79GHz P4)
    - Copy time: 8 hours (1TB OEM - Transfer rates between 39,000 kB/s and 50,000 kB/s.)

    I had run WD's Lifeguard extended diagnostic previously (took over 60 hours) to verify that there were no issues with the new drive. I also adjusted the AAM to 128 with HDDScan using a BlacX SATA/USB dock prior.

    The jmfs copy/expand/supersize programs ran perfectly and as described.

    Copied the OEM 1TB drive to the 2TB drive, no glitches, no errors. Expanded the 2TB drive and shut the system down. Disconnected the OEM drive, fired jmfs up again and ran Supersize. I did not adjust the Intellipark setting. Installed the drive and it successfully booted up and then successfully performed a menu restart. The initial boot process had to be performing some housekeeping as it was excruciatingly long at 10+ plus minutes. A second power cycle was normal.

    Checked the original TiVo Drive, a WD10EVVS. The AAM was set to 128 (as would be expected of a dedicated A/V drive) and the timeout/idle setting was not enabled.

    So we now have 317 hours of HD recording goodness. The original TiVo drive is sitting safely on the shelf for any future needs.

    Thanks very much to Comer for a great program and to everyone here for all of the valuable input and feedback! :up:
     
  16. Feb 3, 2011 #636 of 2853
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,897
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    At one time (fall of 2009) the Intellipark setting (known only as "idle timeout" at the time) was enabled on OEM 1TB hard drives installed in TiVo HDXL's (Premieres hadn't been released). As mentioned that caught TiVo with their collective pants down when they pushed a regular update and TiVo's hung on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Although they (TiVo) overcame the issue with an OS update for the TiVo HDXL's I suspect that it didn't sit well with TiVo that WD made a firmware change without notifying their customers. Based on how they "fixed" the issue with the THDXL's my WAG is that the OS now auto-disables the timeout on the first boot. Or they may have arranged to have new drives delivered w/o Intellipark enabled to avoid any issues in the future. I kind of doubt that WD is creating drives specifically for Tivo though. Although they buy quite a few, by comparison to the total out there, it seems more likely that the OS takes care of it because it would certainly increase raw materials costs otherwise. That's just speculation on my part though.

    So my gut feeling is that disabling Intellipark on a WD A/V GP drive (WD20EURS for example) won't have any ill effects with respect to the performance or lifespan of the hard drive in question. How doing so might affect the standard WD GP drive series (WD20EARS for instance) I have no idea. It seems like it shouldn't make any difference, but the only folks that would really know work at WD. When this whole thing took off over a year ago several of us contacted WD to ask for an explanation. We all received e-mails (from the same or similarly named person :rolleyes: ) that justified their dedication to save energy and so forth but never addressed our questions specifically. Subsequent e-mails to WD went unanswered.

    So it's hard to say what's right or wrong or what settings will make a difference with respect to the Intellipark settings on WD drives manufactured prior to September 15, 2010 or so. Only time will tell. I'm just glad that the drives manufactured after that date no longer have to be tweaked.
     
  17. Feb 4, 2011 #637 of 2853
    wireless200

    wireless200 New Member

    58
    0
    Apr 15, 2004
    Just completed the upgrade to 2TB. It went ok. I think I touched one drive and the power glitched or something and I had to start over. But second time it finished ok and worked.

    I started filling out the rebate on the WD drive and it asked for the serial # so I had to go back in and pull out the drive again.

    The second time I powered back up the unit it seemed to hang on the "just a few minutes more" screen. I uplugged and rebooted and it started back up all the way.

    So I'll see how it goes. But thanks much Comer and Rich. Actually it was a little easier than the the S3 upgrade because there was no interim step of putting the image on the computer hard drive. For the TP, it copies drive-to-drive.

    I have the W20EARS. Is that the one that needs intellipark adjusted or anything? Bought it from newegg. I don't want to pull it out again and look at the manufacture date but I will if I have to.

    Good job!
     
  18. Feb 4, 2011 #638 of 2853
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,897
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    The need to adjust the Intellipark setting depends on when the drive was manufactured. If it was after September 15th probably not. Since it booted up initially I'm guessing not but the only way to find out would be to perform a menu restart. If it boots up okay again then you're golden. If it hangs on the "Welcome!" screen and you don't want it to hang after TiVo pushes an update (you could power-cycle it to get it going again) you should adjust the Intellipark setting.

    As mentioned earlier I almost gave up on the first boot up after I upgraded. TiVo stayed on the "Almost there..." screen for well over 10 minutes. I decided to let it go and it finally booted up. I put my ear to the case and could hear the hard drive working while I was waiting so I suspect there was some housekeeping going on. (A hang will generally result in silence from the hard drive.) The second time I power-cycled it, it booted up in the normal amount of time, maybe 3 to 4 minutes or so. It was painful waiting that first time though.

    Congrats and enjoy!
     
  19. Feb 4, 2011 #639 of 2853
    Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

    82,882
    515
    Oct 29, 2000
    Indeed it did! Thanks...

    Copying from 320 GB to 2TB drive now... via USB... it's been taking many hours. But I'm patient!
     
  20. Feb 4, 2011 #640 of 2853
    wireless200

    wireless200 New Member

    58
    0
    Apr 15, 2004
    It hangs up on the menu reboot but not the unplug reboot. I'm going to check the manufacture date tomorrow. I didn't bother to check since it was newegg and they should have gone through their prior 9-15 stock by now. Works fine otherwise. Can I use widdle on windows to check it or do I have to do something with the linux disc?
     

Share This Page