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Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by comer, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. jetcobra

    jetcobra New Member

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    Jul 24, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Thanks for the inputs. I did Copy, Expand and Supersize all in one shot, so to get the full 479 do I follow the process from JMBach below step for step again on the same drive? I am not a super user of TIVO but can follow directions well, so I only want to do this if there is no possibility of messing up. When you say 1TB image you mean the original Premiere image right? My Premiere was a basic so its HDD is 500GB. Thanks again for the help.

    "For what ever reason, Cybernut's original expansion did not use all the sectors available. So we reset his image by modifying the partition map to indicate the original expansion partition was gone and let the TiVo divorce the partition. Once that was done, used JMFS to expand and supersize. This time it used all the space available and we finally got the expected result.

    Not sure why JMFS did not do it correctly the first time. Perhaps because the copy and expansion occurred in one session versus doing the copy and expansion in separate sessions.

    FWIW, this was the process I used when I made the 3TB image:
    a) copied my 1TB image to the 3TB drive
    b) shut down the computer with JMFS and removed the drive
    c) boot the 1TB image on the 3TB drive in my TiVo and once I made sure the image was fully operational, via the menu options, restarted the TiVo and pulled the power upon restart
    d) restarted JMFS and did the expansion and supersize.
    e) placed the drive back in the TiVo and booted up"
     
  2. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Is that 1TB image a previously expanded one or one that is 1TB from TiVo.
     
  3. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Never mind. Reread your post and you have a 500GB native image. To get the full 3TB of storage, you will have to expand to 1TB first and then do a little rearranging of the partitions and then do another expansion with JMFS. There are tools available to do this and they are found here.
     
  4. jetcobra

    jetcobra New Member

    84
    0
    Jul 24, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    The 1TB referred to in my reply above was the one that Cybernut was doing. My premiere has a 500GB HDD original in the TIVO. I used this as a baseline for the 3TB and did the Copy, Expand and Supersize all in one shot and got 430 hours of HD.

    My question is do I redo the whole process including all of the steps below on my already supersized 3TB in order to get the full 479 hours?

    a)the copy from the original 500GB to the 3TB drive
    b) shut down the computer with JMFS and remove the drive
    c) boot the 500GB image on the 3TB drive in my TiVo and make sure the image is fully operational, then, via the menu options, restart the TiVo and pull the power upon restart
    d) restart JMFS and do the expansion and supersize.
    e) place the drive back in the TiVo and booted up"
     
  5. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    The easiest way is to:
    1) Copy your 500GB image to the 3TB drive.
    2) Use hdparm on the JMFS iso to limit the drive to about 1TB temporarily and then use JMFS to expand.
    3) Put the drive in the TiVo to make sure it works. (EDIT: By power cycling the drive when it is removed from the computer and placed in the TiVo, it removes the hdparm setting and places it back to its normal setting. This holds true as long as you do not use the permanent setting for the number of visible sectors. If you do then you will have to use hdparm to revert the changes. Just make sure you note the original sector count.)
    4) Remove the drive from the TiVo and use the scripts in the thread I pointed to in an earlier post to rearrange and coalesce the partition structure.
    5) Expand the drive again with JMFS. It will now have the full 3TB recording space.

    Read the whole thread I pointed to in my previous post as this is what you are trying to do to get the whole 3TB.

    If JMFS gets patched, then you could use the same method using a 2TB drive as an interim to expand onto a 4TB drive. Currently JMFS has a bug in it that limits its usefulness to images that are under 1.5TB in size.

    To try to expand your current 2.5TB image to 3TB will require you to slide the added partition to the end of the drive and use a secondary interim drive to create a partition about 500GB in size to slip on to the 3TB drive in the space you opened up by sliding the added partition down. Much easier to do it the first way.
     
  6. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Did you leave out the step where you go back and undo adding an HPA with hdparm?
     
  7. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Actually I did not. There are two ways to limit the sectors on a drive. One way survives a power cycle of a drive and the other does not. The method I used in the 4TB DIY is the temporary method. When you run that hdparm command, the limitation of sectors remains as long as the drive is not powered off. Once it is powered off and powered back on, the drive returns to its normal state. So once you remove the drive from your computer and put it back in the TiVo for testing, the drive has been power cycled and now back to its normal state.
     
  8. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I apologize, then.

    I use hdparm, so infrequently, that I forgot not using the persistence option reverts the values on power cycle.

    Hitachi Feature Tool can also create both temporary and permanent changes in the available LBA count (although "permanent" implies irreversible, which it is NOT). It does explain that the temporary one won't stay if the drive is power-cycled. It does do the same thing as setting a HPA.

    There are some minor downsides with using HFT. It has two modes, one being select a drive size (which doesn't work on very large drives), and set by LBA (which is offset by 1 LBA unit, due to how it treats the first LBA as being LBA 0 or 1, which I can't recall which one it is). So, one needs to be aware of it doing it in a way that no other tool does. HFT also requires a power-cycle, before making any more changes to the visible LBAs, without being very clear that is the case (leading to the changes seeming permanent).

    It would have been good for everybody, if you'd stated your explanation (setting those of us that didn't know/remember straight), for everybody to know, within the directions. It's always good to know if/when a power cycle may undo the changes (so people don't allow a power cycle, or make sure to do a power cycle, depending on what which one is needed and which is to be avoided).

    Some who have read previous posts, in the many other threads, and here, about testing the drive before going further, which is almost always stated as being "optional", could assume it is optional in this instance, and find themselves wondering why things didn't work (because they skipped the installing drive in the TiVo to see that it works at that point in the process).

    Your help, and willingness to help, has always been appreciated. I hope you understand what I've just said, and take it for what it truly is, rather than feeling anybody was jumping on you, just because they thought you excluded something, and saw a chance to point out a (incorrectly) perceived error of omission.

    So, that said, if I had posted what you did, I'd go back and add-in the explanation about persistent hdparm and non-persistent hdparm changes, perhaps giving a direction subset for not testing the drive in the TiVo first (simply inserting that a power-cycle is required, to proceed without that step). However, if the installed test is required for a reason (beyond being thorough), then I'd just make sure to state not to skip that step.

    I also feel it's worth noting that a true power cycle is required, and a reboot is not the same as a drive power cycle. I know this. But, some might not, or may just forget/overlook this important difference.
     
  9. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    No apology needed.

    Point taken for the need for more clarification concerning the non persistance of the hdparm changes with a power cycle. Will adjust the write up accordingly.

    The install test is just being thorough. I have seen to many times when something went wrong with the copy and expand process and it had to be repeated. So it provides a check point if the process fails elsewhere. I tend to, as a practice, do one mod and test for operational ability of the mod. Easier to debug the process. Especially if I am helping someone else with the process.
     
  10. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    Edited the post.
     
  11. cykotix

    cykotix New Member

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    May 22, 2014
    Do we know what part specifically needs patching?
     
  12. lgnad

    lgnad Pantless Mofo

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    Feb 14, 2013
    Massachusetts
    Just used JMFS and upgraded a lifetimed Premiere 320gb to 2TB WD20EURX to gift to my parents... copied, expanded, supersized... got it all back together, waiting for the tv to become available in a few minutes to test it! <fingers crossed>
     
  13. randomtech

    randomtech New Member

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    May 22, 2014
    I succeeded in reviving my Premiere XL and expanding to 2TB. I can't get the WD Align tool to do anything with the drive though and find the other instructions daunting. If anyone has a short cheat sheet on how to align a working drive I would attempt it. Anyway, I made asmall donation tot he cause. Keep up the good work!
     
  14. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Jan 1, 2009
    If you want to align the drive you will have to use the tools found in the 4TB DIY thread or in the 320GB > 1TB > 2TB thread. There is a copy and rearrange tool that will 4k align the drive while copying. You can use the recommended copy order or keep the normal order 1, 13, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 14, 10, 12, 11. Once you use that tool, you can expand with JMFS. The WD Align tool does not recognize the TiVo partition.
     
  15. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Why does TiVo use require or (help the TiVo system) if any 3Tb or bigger drive is aligned ??
     
  16. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Less Read-Change-Write operations = longer drive lifespan, or so the industry and "experts" claim. I tend to agree.

    Due to the large bulk writes TiVo uses (for recording/buffering), it would be the database housing and other non A/V partitions where the alignment would help the most.

    I doubt we'll ever be able to measure any performance gain with a TiVo (or know any exists). Even the drive lifespan consideration is something that will be hard for anybody to prove (outside of TiVo's research division).

    I'd prefer to be aligned. TiVo's stock Roamio layouts are fully aligned. The 2TB Premiere XL4/Elites were mostly aligned. TiVo doesn't tend to change things unless they feel they need to, have to, or are told to. Maybe WD or Seagate told TiVo to get aligned, or potentially suffer shortened drive life.
     
  17. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,697
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    So if you put a blank 3Tb drive into a Roamio, will the TiVo built in format system do the drive alignment itself ? My understanding of this alignment stuff is reading a disk near partition boundaries. Does not seem that would happen very much to reduce the life of the drive, but I not any drive expert.
     
  18. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yes, the Roamios will completely align the structures they create. I got this information from ggieseke.

    It's not just near boundaries. If the start boundary is misaligned, all the sectors in that partition will be offset (misaligned).

    It's hard to explain it when talking TiVo, other than the large and long writes TiVos use when writing A/V data, mostly nullify the need for alignment (in the partitions dedicated for A/V data). Since these writes tend to be consecutive, as well, there's generally little or no R-C-W operations. When it comes to the partitions that get small/quick/random writes, there's the same issues that misalignment in a PC can cause, and excessive R-C-W operations can wear-down sectors being written to excessively, as well as the added seek operations wearing the head actuator mechanism.

    It's important to remember that the physical sector is 4K, divided into 8 * 512 byte logical sectors (emulated sectors), and misalignment can result in two physical sectors having to be R-C-W, when alignment can make just one physical sector get a R-C-W operation, or a single write operation, without the Read-Change part being needed.

    I'm no expert, either. I just compare notes from manufacturers, standards, wikipedia, ggieseke, and "experts" I trust.
     
  19. Cap'n Preshoot

    Cap'n Preshoot New Member

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    Apr 25, 2011
    Katy, TX
    PREMIER THREAD: I'd like to say Thank You for the recommendation to run the WD Extended diagnostics. Yes, it indeed takes an awfully long time, over 12 hours, but the point is it FAILED about 3/4 of the way into the new 2TB drive (WD20-EURX) from Amazon, so they're getting this one back. However, I'm a little peeved w/Amazon regarding the replacement. Even though this drive was ordered via Prime w/2-day delivery, according to their replacement/return page the replacement drive won't be here until some unspecified date between July 2 and July 17th. That's not good customer service - at least not in my opinion. The drives are not out of stock, so why is it going to take anywhere from 3 to 5 weeks to get a replacement? I think it's time to give them a call.
     
  20. Cap'n Preshoot

    Cap'n Preshoot New Member

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    Apr 25, 2011
    Katy, TX
    PREMIER THREAD: As a follow-up to my previous, after speaking with a (live) customer service person it seems that although I bought the original drive from them late week B4 last, it was at that time available from internal Amazon stock and thus available via PRIME.

    Unfortunately the 2TB drive is (currently) no longer available through Prime and orders are now being fulfilled by one of Amazon's channel partners, specifically in this case, Tiger Direct.

    Yes, you can specify expedited shipping (at your own expense) and TD will in fact use expedited shipping if you so specify, but it's still going to take 10 days to 2 weeks or longer for it to ship. Once it ships, it will go via overnight, or 2-day, etc. The logjam is in getting it shipped! Appearances are that there is an internal breakdown with Tiger Direct's order fulfillment dept. in that it's taking an unacceptably long time to process orders.

    This squares with my own (limited) experience w/ordering from Tiger Direct. It seems to take forever to receive the mdse.

    So as the saying goes, "Buyer Beware" if you're ordering a drive that's not available via "Prime" be sure to check to see who the ultimate vendor is. If it's Tiger Direct and you're in a hurry for it, you'll generally get it much sooner from NewEgg.

    Only my 2ยข on the matter.
     

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