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Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions - with all-in-one jmfs Live CD

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by comer, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Guitar-Builder

    Guitar-Builder New Member

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    May 24, 2013
    I used this system to upgrade one of my 3 Premieres and after the second try message said copy completely successful. Then I did the expansion and supersize. All worked perfectly. But then last night I was going to record some of my premium channels but the grey screen popped up showing the cable card needed to be paired. I thought that doing the exact copy all of the c card info would be saved. I called charter twice last night asking them to ping my cable card and tuning adapter. No luck. It's the Memorial Day weekend so I won't see anyone til mid week. Anyone else run into this? Any suggestions?
     
  2. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yes. One of the recent firmware updates that have been getting deployed to Cisco/Scientific Atlanta CableCards has protection that can tell if the CableCard is no longer being used with the same drive (by verifying that the TiVo and hard drive have the same serial numbers as the last time it was initialized). You can no longer clone the drive and keep the pairing. You may lose the ability to view some of your existing recordings. It depends on tightly the CableCo is restricting certain content. It's a protection that is independent of the CCI byte.

    I've verified this MANY times, as well as a helpful TCF user pointing out the specifications of the firmware update on the CableCard's manufacturer's website. It's marketed to the Cable Companies as a very flexible and easy way to protect "Advanced TV" content.

    I was no longer able to view any Advanced TV content in my Now Playing List, after swapping cards between two TiVos, as well, even though I had them re-paired. Backing up your pairing is soon to be a thing of the past, if the other manufacturers, like Motorola, do the same thing. Sorry.
     
  3. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Your saying that you can't watch programs that were recorded before ?? what if you left out the cable card from the TiVo, can you then watch the programs, I did not think that the cable card controlled what you can watch, only what you can tune. (not talking about HBO type copy protection) Every time I upgrade a TiVo I put the cable card into the new TiVo, pair it, than xfer the programs I want from the old TiVo that now has no cable card to the new TiVo, never had a problem (except HBO type programs). Even with HBO type programs you may not copy them to another TiVo but you can watch them on the TiVo after you remove the cable card. I was under the impression that all recorded TiVo program were protected by the TSN of the TiVo that recorded them, not the cable card itself. If what your saying is true than if my cable Card went bad and I got a new cable card I could not watch the programs that I had on my TiVo ? We all know that if a TiVo motherboard went bad there would be no way one could watch the programs that were recorded on that TiVos hard drive even if the hard drive was good, because putting that hard drive into another TiVo you must still do a C&D all to get the drive working.
     
  4. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    IMHO, he is stating a theory as if it were established fact. Part of it is based on, again IMHO, a complete mis-interpretation of what the Cisco CableCARD specs say. Another part is based on well, he couldn't possibly be doing anything wrong.:rolleyes:
     
  5. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yep, already recorded, already watched before, programming that was on the non-premium, move-pak channels (with Cox is: Encore, IFC, Sundance, LMN, Epix, etc., with Epix being the only one with CCI byte in use), available only with "Cox Advanced TV", and Cisco advertising their new ways they protect "Advanced TV services". The TiVo will claim there was either no signal available, or that I do not subscribe to the channel", even though I do, and it played just fine before, and I can tune to, record, and watch from that channel again (after re-pairing), but the recordings viewable before the re-pair stay that way. I've been obsessed over just how far this could impact things. What's next, limiting just how long I can keep it to watch again, or for the first time after recording it, if I want to watch it only when I have nothing else I like better to watch?

    I tried it all, and your questioning the same things that I was myself questioning in the TiVo software update thread, and at least one other, where it may not have been the best place(s). Four Premieres are all doing this (I just tried the HDs, which still won't allow cloned drives to stay paired). AFAIK, yes, if you find yourself with a failed cablecard, and have to have it replaced, and your CableCo is using these measures, you will lose the ability to watch any applicable programming. Cox claims they have no idea what the flash update does, and won't comment on my questions - which is S.O.P. for them for a while now.

    You can get away with pulling the cablecard out, if you put it right back in (the same one). I've taken multiple identical drives, paired the cards, cloned them, then the clone isn't paired (Premiere & HD), paired the clone, then put the other drive back in and the pairing is gone. You can view the affected programming with the cable signal source unplugged, but it's a limited window of time, before the card expires itself, and its pairing/authorization.

    I was provided a bunch of links in the TiVo software thread to the Cisco website areas that describe this.

    It was about two months before this TiVo update that all the CableCards received a firmware flash.

    I'm sure the implementation, use, and restrictions using the new measures widely varies, and some markets may not be using it (or those with non-Cisco/SA cablecards).

    I can only *assume* TiVo had to know this was coming, and quietly implemented some support for it in Premieres.

    So far, I haven't lost my ability to view content recorded on HD units, just lost the ability to keep pairing, with ANY cloned drive, which leaves me with basic cable, until re-paired, then even if I put the first drive back in, same deal. The obvious conclusion, before reading about the new protection, was that even with a HD unit, The cable card knows the serial number of the hard drive, apparently that much ability was already there way back when the last TiVo HD update was released. Who knows how many things anything is capable of, if those things aren't used for anything... Then, whammo, you find out, like this situation...
     
  6. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Oh, shove it. I've proven it, not dreamed it. Come on over here and prove I'm doing something wrong.

    But, I know your style. You jump all over people, when they express opinions, experiences, or concerns, without any solid proof your rebuttals are anything but either a lack of anything anything better to do, or just a way to pick a fight.

    QUICK EDIT: I admit, I knew much less when I started talking about this in the TiVo software thread. That's why I decided to research the matter, and do more testing. I decided to leave it be, and wait for others to report anything about it, or that seemed to be related to it. I spotted a question here, and felt that I had a truthful, and proven answer, for the original post asking why the cloned drive lost the pairing. Then I was asked, by another person, to expand upon what I posted. I did. So sue me.

    EDIT 2: It's no wonder those who have helped the most people on these forums are long inactive (left), just like how TiVo reps USED TO participate here, and stopped. A person tries to help, and some person ATTACKS them, like a freakin' rabid dog (usually one with a pattern of it, which there's no shortage of on here). You really don't think I remember who ATTACKS, versus those who simply disagree. I've been wrong before, and learned to admit when I am. Ignoring those who won't/can't do so and only like to come on here for their benefit and pick fights, I'm working on... and not doing so well with...
     
  7. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,075
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    :rolleyes: No, I object to fools stating their "opinions" as if they were established, objective facts and then, when challenged, claim they were only "stating an opinion".

    You haven't proven anything except that you think you're infallible and that your interpretation of the events and data is the only possible one. Until someone who actually knows what they are doing or has actual, confirmable information, I will continue to believe that you are making an unsupported leap to a conclusion.

    Answer these questions:

    Why would they care what disk is in a DVR? CableCARDs are also installed in diskless, cable STBs. All it accomplishes is forcing the user to get the card paired again.

    Also explain why CableLabs would certify any such modification?

    How is the CableCARD even accessing that information?
     
  8. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I wish I had all the answers. It doesn't make sense to me either.

    If you didn't follow the links in the other thread, provided by somebody else (WHO IS ACTUALLY HELPFUL), I'd suggest you do. I'd like to know if there's a regulatory agency that I can contact to ask if any such changes were approved. Maybe they didn't need to be. Throw me some phone numbers or web sites that I can make inquiries with.

    I see a lack of you providing answers, instead dishing out opinions and arguments, most of which are malicious in nature. I mean that as a whole, forum-wide.

    The more time I spend going back and forth with you, the less I can do to help anybody, or get any answers. So, as much as I'd like to let you prove my OPINION of you, I'm going to let you find somebody else to hassle/harass, which you certainly will, and get back to looking for the answers to questions in this matter, and any other issues people are asking about, that I either know how to help with, or can at least try to.

    As for the bulk of your post, shove that too. Have a nice day...
     
  9. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,075
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    Seriously? You have just proved yourself to be even more clueless than it at first appeared. I have yet to see you providing annyone actual help, just stating your theories as if they immutable facts and or less telling people there is nothing they can do about it.

    I'd give you the same advice, but your head is in the way.
     
  10. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    On the first segment, sticks and stones.

    On the second, I'll take it under advisement.

    One thing that stands out to me, is (and often is) you are reading this (and other) thread(s), yet you did nothing to help the original poster, in ANY way, who was asking if anybody knew anything about why he lost his cablecard pairing after cloning. You didn't even so much as offer up an alternative theory, or opinion on a plausible explanation, you just laid into me. You also implied that he and/or I were doing something wrong, yet couldn't/wouldn't offer up WHAT was possibly being done wrong. That's not very helpful, nor friendly. It's your M.O.

    So, like I've done in the past, I'll ask you to come up with other plausible reasons/explanations/guesses. I'll ask you to try and answer any questions since that person came asking for help, especially your own that you asked. If you had/have the answers, why not share them? That would be far more humbling to me than your usual demeanor.

    I'll happily recant, and apologize, if you come up with either a plausible alternative answer for that person regarding losing their pairing (other than merely "doing something wrong"), which solves their problem, or if you can prove that what I say is happening in my regional cable provider's area, isn't actually happening.

    So, what's it going to be, more attacking, or as laid out above? I know what I'd bet my money on... However, I don't have any issues with being wrong or proven wrong. I'd like to be wrong, and NOT be looking at a future with more imposing restrictions and limitations on the programming I record. I'd love for the issue I described, to be something I can make go away, or it found to be a bug/issue that will get resolved. Sometimes being wrong is what I hope for the most of all. Seriously...
     
  11. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,075
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    How exactly is what you did helpful? If you had stated it as a theory or what you think, that would be one thing. Instead, you stated it in terms that implied that these were established, independently verifiable facts. That is counterproductive when someone is seeking a solution to their problem.

    You want my theory? Ok. The more likely explanation is that both you and the OP screwed something up when you did the the copy/expand. Or that there is a problem with the s/w or h/w. It is extremely unlikely that the CableCARD is checking the s/n of the disk.

    I can assure you that I have provided useful information in the TCF that enabled people to fix their problems and been thanked for it. I've also fixed problems in s/w used by some TCF members. Can you provide a link to a single post wherein you actually helped anyone?
     
  12. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Calm down people
     
  13. ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    May 30, 2008
    +1
     
  14. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Everybody is entitled to their opinions and theories. Hopefully, SOMEBODY will get the facts at some point. I can't fully agree or disagree with the theory you presented. I feel it's pointless to try and work with you on getting to the bottom of the cablecard/cloning matter, unfortunately.

    You seem to rarely pay attention to any details except for ones you can attack. Otherwise, you'd know the details of my upgrades, my experience level, that I do help people, do get thanked, and that I recently bought DVR_DUDE drives, and just clone them as needed, to new, identical model drives. I still have one Premiere I did with JMFS and a different model drive, that I haven't swapped-out, and it doesn't behave any differently in the cablecard/cloning matter.

    You dodge questions, then ask your own. You brag about your help and thanks you received, without giving me a full list of links (or any at all), then expect me to provide you with mine? Interaction with you is a joke, and a big waste of time. I'd like to say "put up, or shut up", but what's the point? There is none. You've stuck to your narcissistic ways here for years, there isn't anything anybody but a forum moderator can do that about that.

    All future posts from you, anywhere, aimed at me, shall be ignored, with a brief canned line stating I choose to ignore you. Now, run along and find a new bullying victim. I'm done with you, but not these forums.
     
  15. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    I hope DVR_DUDE does not come after you for cloning his drives !!! I would never admit to something like that on a public forum.
     
  16. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I'm usually more careful to specify that I only clone them for my own use. The purchased drives are in a virgin, never used state. So, if I only clone them to another identical model drive, and never use the purchased ones at all, how is that an issue?

    The mere fact that they can be cloned, and the sheer number of people selling upgrades under very close names, like DVR_DADDY, etc., claiming the same claims he makes, are the ones that I would think he cares about.

    I went with DVR_DUDE, since it's been implied that he pioneered the higher-priced upgrades from weeknees/DVRUpgrade, has a unbelievably great eBay reputation, and has been doing it far longer than the others, who I speculate DO sell clones of his work as their own.

    His drives don't come with any "terms of use" or license, merely an invoice.

    Technically, he, and other upgrade vendors, are the ones who are publicly putting themselves in a potentially compromising position, quite publicly. They're profiting by re-selling clones of TiVo's intellectual property. TiVo seems to not care, at this time. That could also change at any time.

    But, I think I'm just stating what you already know, beyond clarifying that I DON'T clone and share, nor do I clone and profit. I don't even post his partition layouts, although I have been tempted, at times, so that the tools in progress for backing up TiVo drives will work with his as well. Why shouldn't I, since he doesn't actually prohibit it? He's only been vocal about others selling upgrades that are either, allegedly, inferior in quality, or possibly knock-offs, minus the support he provides his customers.
     
  17. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
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    I never heard of an inferior TiVo copy, if it works, it works, the length of time it works has to do with the Hard Drive used, and he makes an issue that he uses a better grade hard drive than many others on E-Bay.
     
  18. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I understand your point, and don't disagree.

    What I meant was, if you read his constantly growing & changing description of why you should buy his drives, he's included every myth & no-longer valid/never proven bit of information he's been able to dig up, to practically scare people into only buying from him, and without directly attacking Comer & JMFS by name, he dismisses them as an improper upgrade, that will give inferior results, also claiming that the existing tools and other vendors "trick" your TiVo into displaying that it has more capacity than it actually does, but with his drives, the System Info screen reports true capacity, as opposed to tricked capacity.

    He also claims true & full 4K partition alignment, which is an outright lie, on two-tuner Premieres and anything that came before them.

    He dismisses any upgrade done by any existing tools, other than his own work as inferior. He also claims he built his image from the ground-up. That's a pretty hard thing to do when you need the original TiVo software to start.

    The 4K alignment (the bulk of the reason I bought from him) is bogus, for all the units I have. It's a little bit harder to prove his claims that a pre-imaged upgrade drive sourced from anyplace else, or expanded with any other method than his gives a false capacity reading on the System Information screen. The other thing claimed was that only HIS supersize was a true, properly implemented, supersize.

    I get why he's using the scare-tactics, but just how much of it can be substantiated remains left to be proven/disproven. I'm ticked-off about paying for 4K alignment, when that's not what I got... I've looked at his so-called "optimized partition layout", and while it may be on a HD unit, the Premiere image just has one huge partition tacked onto the end of what would have been on a stock drive. How is that "optimized"?

    The scare-tactics may be a necessity to keep the money coming in, for him. But, my respect-level, in general, has declined, as he didn't used to use them, until all the competition flooded in on eBay.
     
  19. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
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    I have not read his latest scare-tactics, good stuff to know, but as you said no way to prove if it has any real meaning, my delete folder is full, I did a quick add of the hours of these programs, than added the non deleted programs and the math was within 5%, of the reported space, both total and what was used on the TiVo, good enough for me as each program may take a difference amount of HD record space. OH, I am using a 2Tb drive upgrade (I made myself) on a TP-4.
     
  20. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    4k aligned is relatively easy as the partitions need to start on the correct boundary. If it means anything to the TiVo unit who knows. Has been some debate about it. For it to provide a lot of benefit the OS should be using 4k clusters as well. Otherwise get a small degradation in overall performance.

    When comparing "optimized" layout versus "non optimized" layout the only difference I see is the placement of the core partitions (bootstrap, kernel, root, their alternates, swap, and var) in the middle of the disk versus at the beginning of the disk. This is, I suppose, to minimize head travel thus improve performance to some degree. So in a sense, if all that happened was that the extra space at the end of a normal TiVo image was converted to a MFS partition to gain the extra space then it is not optimized based on that definition.
     

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