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POE Filter Placement

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by Tom Pich, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Tom Pich

    Tom Pich Member

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    Jan 29, 2013
    Indianapolis...
    I seen another thread with this same question, but I don't think it was definitively answered.

    I have two Roamio Pros on the way and I plan to add a Mini shortly thereafter. The Roamios will be hardwired ethernet and the Mini will connect via MOCA from one of the Roamios. Per the diagram will the POE filter placement be okay? I figure putting the POE filter there will save me needing a POE filter on my cable modem as well.

    [​IMG]

    I just want to make sure that the filter didn't HAVE to be at the actual point of entry.

    Thanks
     
  2. tatergator1

    tatergator1 Active Member

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    Mar 27, 2008
    Columbus, Ohio
    That will work. I think the general advice of putting it at the entry point is for simplicity.
     
  3. Tom Pich

    Tom Pich Member

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    Indianapolis...
  4. ellinj

    ellinj Seems Very Friendly TCF Club

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    Feb 26, 2002
    RI
    Also if you have Tuning Adapters, my cable company says you need one at each of those. My understanding is DOCSIS devices do not like MOCA signals,
     
  5. supasta

    supasta New Member

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    Colorado
  6. Tom Pich

    Tom Pich Member

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    Jan 29, 2013
    Indianapolis...
  7. webcrawlr

    webcrawlr New Member

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    Mar 4, 2004
    That's how I placed mine. The filter has 1db of insertion loss so placing it on the out leg of your splitter like that instead of the head end makes the most sense if you don't need MoCA on the cable modem leg.
     
  8. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    You don't need a MoCA filter on a cable modem anyways. It doesn't matter where it goes, what you have will work fine. I don't have a MoCA filter at all, and my MoCA has to pass up through a splitter, across a splitter, and back down another one, and my stuff works 99% of the time.
     
  9. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    The filter main job is to keep outside people from getting into your network, if your in an apt type building it would a bigger problem than in a separate home.
     
  10. scole250

    scole250 Member

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    Nov 8, 2005
    Goldsboro, NC
    Who is your cable company? I have TWC and used their whole home DVR setup for a little while and their DVRs use MoCA to talk to each other. It would be BS if it's ok for their DVR to use MoCA but not a their TA not exist with it on the coax.
     
  11. ellinj

    ellinj Seems Very Friendly TCF Club

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    RI
    Cox, the self install kit for the TA came with a moca filter. Also one came with the new cable/voice modem install kit. So I actually now have four POE filters. 1 at the actual point of entry, one at each of my two TAs and one at my Cable Modem.
     
  12. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    This is a "blanket post" to try and help anybody. Why there needs to be so many threads on this subject, and why new ones are created every other day, is a bit ridiculous. Hopefully, the mods/admins will find a way to combine the whole MoCA PoE (Point of Entry) filter matter into a sticky thread at some point....

    I can't speak for all TAs, but the Cisco STA1520 TAs are well known to have a tendency to malfunction if MoCA signals are not filtered out from getting to them, no matter how you hook them up (in-line to the TiVo, or with a splitter). They are also incapable of passing MoCA frequencies through the internal circuit, to attached equipment, if connected "in-line".

    This is the reason why Cox (in my market) provides a self-install kit that provides a MoCA PoE filter for EACH TA, with instructions on hooking it up using the splitter method (as opposed to pass-through, aka "in-line").

    ANY device that was not designed to either handle MoCA signals, or was designed to, but fails to, can malfunction when they are present.

    It USED TO BE that the primary reason for PoE filters was for security reasons. Nowadays, most MoCA networking equipment has security in-place, and that's no longer the PRIMARY issue to worry about.

    While called a "Point of Entry" filter, they can be used for many reasons, and in many places. If you use MoCA and don't place one at your residence's PoE, you can even disrupt (or cause malfunctions) with your neighbors' equipment. MoCA is designed to "punch-through" all splitters and the isolation that is supposed to keep the signals in the rated range, as well as from passing between the "out" legs. Without this ability to punch-through, MoCA would be VERY hard to implement. The price of the ease of implementing it is it getting into equipment where it doesn't belong (and potential equipment malfunctions, as a result).

    If you don't use MoCA (like me), it's still best-practice to place one PoE filter at the residence's Point of Entry, and then you know that a neighbor's MoCA signals won't find their way into your home and equipment.

    If you use MoCA, the best practice is the same, plus putting PoE filters in strategic places, creating boundaries as to where the MoCA signals can reach. There is no harm in using them to limit the MoCA to only where it needs to get to, and nowhere else. The only signal loss is the minimal "insertion loss" that you get when you insert any additional connection in any placement. Insertion loss is just a tem for the minor reflection of signals when you add anything to your coax runs.

    Also, by creating boundaries as to where the MoCA frequencies can and can't go, you increase the efficiency/throughput of your MoCA network.

    The possible worst-case scenario when using many MoCA PoE filters, is a defective or failed PoE filter causing a blockage by blocking signals above, or below, what it is rated to. For example, a bad MoCA filter could stop your cable modem from working.

    For the matter of directionality (which comes up often), there is none with a PoE filter that works as designed. You can place it in either direction. There is no true "in" or "out". They work both ways, unless defective.

    While this doesn't cover everything and every scenario, I'm growing tired of typing out the same information over and over again. Nearly every possible MoCA and PoE filter question has already been asked, and answered, many times, over many threads, in many areas.

    I don't have an issue with trying to help, or answering questions. It just is getting a bit ridiculous with the number of people starting new threads on the matter. Just because you don't understand what has already been asked and answered, or feel that it wasn't specific to your own situation, doesn't justify starting a new thread on the same subject.

    Again, this is a "blanket post", and just because I quoted somebody does not mean I am directing this only at them, nor only the Original Poster, who started the thread.

    Admittedly, I can see how I may offend some people with the tone/attitude interjected in this post, but it's not my intention to do so. I'm not in the best of moods at the moment, but still want to help.
     
  13. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Hmmm, that's a pretty good point. We're in a house, but there still could be other houses on the same tap, and they're not that far away from us. The houses here are basically on top of each other, maybe 30' between them at most, with <50ft to the road.
     
  14. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    For the cost of less than $10 why take any chances, (you could also have a hacker outside your home trying to get into your CIA work on your computer);)
     
  15. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Also, if you live in a market, like mine, where self-install kits are provided at no additional cost, including a PoE filter, splitter, cables, and a diagram with instructions, if would be silly to not use the free PoE filters.

    I recently returned three tuning adapters, and they declined to take the self-install kits back. I had removed the PoE filters in case they did expect the kits back. Now I have plenty of extras. Especially so, since I only require one at the actual Point of Entry, to insure a neighbor using MoCA without proper filter installation could not egress/ingress MoCA signals to my residence, and cause issues with my equipment not designed to deal with the associated frequencies.

    For those who don't get the free self-install kits, or they don't include the PoE filters, I'd recommend asking a signal analysis to be performed for your home, then ask the tech for some MoCA filters. It doesn't hurt to ask, and can save you up to ~$10 each filter. It's actually in your MSO's best interests that ALL homes have a PoE filter at the actual Point of Entry, providing them with a means to keep your signal clean, as well as any neighbors' signals, MoCA in-use, or not, since it can cause diagnostic headaches for homes affected by another's MoCA network.

    The security reasons for using MoCA filters is nearly moot on current equipment, if set-up properly (making full use of security measures). You can gain additional peace-of-mind by simply using a PoE filter at the Point of Entry. The potential downside (as I've already spoke of in my prior post), is a defective, or failed, PoE filter which either blocks signals it shouldn't, or allows signals to pass, that shouldn't (which is why securing your MoCA network properly is still part of MoCA best practice procedure).
     
  16. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    That's also true. I set up a passcode on my MoCA network, so it should be secure!
     
  17. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    I thought the Roamios had a problem with using the passcode, also it is a pain to setup a passcode on any external MoCA unit.
     
  18. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    I have an XL4 and Minis, no external MoCA devices.
     

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