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POE filter in an apartment

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Kerwin51580, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Kerwin51580

    Kerwin51580 New Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
    New York...
    Before I ask my question, here's some background:
    We live in an aprtment and have two Premiere XL4s, one in the living room and one in the bedroom. The living room XL4 is connected directly to the router. This one is also serving as a moca bridge to the one in the bedroom. I can stream between the two just fine. The Tx/Rx rates hover around 142 Mbps/112 Mbps.

    The way the cable is configured in my apartment is as follows:
    Point of Entry ==> Splitter 1

    Splitter 1 connects to cable modem and Splitter 2

    Splitter 2 connects to both Tivos.

    I read on tivo.com that a moca network in an apartment wouldn't work because a POE filter couldn't be installed where the cable comes in, but it obviously works in my situation without it. Just to be doubly sure that my neighbors can't access my network, I set an encryption key in the moca settings.

    So, my question is whether or not installing a POE filter where the cable comes into my apartment is a good idea or am I just trying to fix something that isn't broken?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. NotNowChief

    NotNowChief Addicted to TiVo

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    Mar 29, 2012
    New York...
    I would put in the filter. I understand you set up encryption, but why not prevent the issue in the first place?

    It seems you have clear and open access to all of your wiring in the apartment, if you can readily identify your POE, try it.
     
  3. CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
    6
    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    Yes, place the POE MoCA filter where the cable comes into your apartment, The POE filter not only prevents your network from reaching your neighbors.

    It also reflects the MoCA signal back into your coax making your signal stronger.

    It also prevents the MoCA signals from causing excess noise issues for your neighbors that could potentially cause them signal problems.
     
  4. dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,129
    81
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    I'd install it, there are many positives, and CoxinPHX's last reason is actually a big deal in an apartment, my Dad did MoCA and didn't do POE and the neighbors in the next house over were having issues because his signal was back filling to them and causing issues.
     
  5. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Where to put what depends on exactly what it does.

    What does a POE filter block and what does it pass?
     
  6. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
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    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    This sounds like a similar situation that I had with getting DSL internet in my apartment.
    Once you get DSL, any peripheral device that uses the phone line requires a DSL filter.
    In my case, the phone jacks throughout the dwelling are wired to a central location, and I only need one filter at that junction.

    In contrast, some houses are wired to a central box only accessable to the phone company. In this case you need a filter at each location.
     
  7. CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
    6
    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
  8. Kerwin51580

    Kerwin51580 New Member

    30
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    Sep 20, 2012
    New York...
    Thanks for all of your input! I'll definitely get one soon. I've noticed that the Tx/Rx rates have actually increased since I posted. As of this morning, I'm getting steady rates of 150 Mbps/142 Mbps and I don't know why they would've increased dramatically without any sort of intervention on my part.

    So should I just buy the POE filter from tivo or just get one from ebay for slightly cheaper?
     
  9. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Okay, now that I know it's basically a low pass filter with a knee at about 1,000MHz, it should probably be the first thing the cable company's cable sees on the way in, unless MoCA screws up the cable modem, in which case cable to splitter, splitter out 1 to cable modem, splitter out 2 to POE filter, filter to second splitter.
     
  10. CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
    6
    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    If you have walk-in stores for your Cable Co. I would go there and ask them if they have one, It will probably be free. As the Cable Co benefits and probably requires you to use one with a MoCA set-up.
     
  11. NotNowChief

    NotNowChief Addicted to TiVo

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    Mar 29, 2012
    New York...
    Exactly. My understanading has been that MoCA uses the unused frequencies below 1ghz to run network traffic. The filter just blocks those low frequencies so the modem and OnDemand will work without a problem.
     
  12. poppagene

    poppagene User

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    Dec 29, 2001
    MoCA channels are located at different frequency bands between 875
    MHz to 1500 MHz
     
  13. Kerwin51580

    Kerwin51580 New Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
    New York...
    I ordered a filter on ebay. I should have it by Monday. I've noticed that since my PHY rates magically increased the other day, I've gotten a few packets with errors. Not so many to make me believe there's a problem with anything (82 on the living room TiVo out of the 7+ million it's received; 10 for the bedroom TiVo).
     
  14. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    The television channels should be below 1GHz (1,000MHz), and the cable modem for internet access should be below them, since they don't start until 54MHz or thereabouts, which leaves 7 TV channels worth of bandwidth underneath.

    The MoCA stuff should be going on above 1GHz.

    Perhaps the specs on both the MoCA adapters and the POE filter should be taken into account together, since there seem to be POE filters with a knee down around 850MHz as well.
     
  15. NotNowChief

    NotNowChief Addicted to TiVo

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    Mar 29, 2012
    New York...
    Thanks for the info and clarification, now I have plenty of reading to do today!

    I found this to be interesting and very informative:

    http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2007/at-sovadia-MoCA-overview-0507.pdf
     
  16. Kerwin51580

    Kerwin51580 New Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
    New York...
    My POE filter should be arriving today. Just an updated on things: Originally, the TA in the bedroom was connected to the TiVo by a 25" long coax cable -- couldn't do anything about the length. I was desperate and that was the only size the local drugstore had. I swapped it out on Monday with a 9" quad shielded cable from Monoprice. It bumped up my Tx/Rx rates about 20Mbps in each direction.

    I just want to make sure I install this filter the right way. I figure I should power down both TiVos, both TAs, the cable modem and router and THEN install the filter. Then, power everything up in the reverse order? Does that sound right?
     
  17. Kerwin51580

    Kerwin51580 New Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
    New York...
    Well I guess I was overthinking everything! POE filter is in place and my Tx/Rx rates are now the same. And they've jumped quite significantly hovering between 235 - 238 Mbps. :D
     
  18. NotNowChief

    NotNowChief Addicted to TiVo

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    Mar 29, 2012
    New York...
    Glad to hear it worked.

    Dont worry about the cable length, its only 25 feet, not 250. Even if its RG-59, its not the end of the world. Hopefully, its RG-6.
     
  19. Kerwin51580

    Kerwin51580 New Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
    New York...
    Yeah, the new cable is RG-6. Looks like I'm finally all set. :cool:
     
  20. bsd

    bsd New Member

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    Sep 30, 2002
    New York,...
    Any idea where I can find a filter in NYC? Tivo has them, but I will pay almost as much for shipping as the filter itself costs. I tried calling Radio Shack and Best Buy and they had no idea what I was talking about.
     

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