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Official TiVo HD thread

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by MickeS, Jul 24, 2007.

  1. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

    17,877
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    Feb 18, 2004
    Ontario Canada.
    It doesn't mean they won't work, it just means you are totally on your own getting one to work, and it is not their fault it won't.
     
  2. nenemc

    nenemc New Member

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    Jun 12, 2007
    What would be better, cost efficient vs time, to upgrade new tivo hd hard disc size or just get a series 3 and fork out more bucks?
     
  3. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

    35,116
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    Jan 23, 2002
    Philadelphia...
    If the station is sending its signal in 1080i or 720p, it will take up the full space of a 1080i or 720p signal, even if the actual content is upconverted 480i. Most of the networks send their main digital channel in the HD resolution 24/7, regardless of the quality of the source of a given program. So yeah, an hour off the CBS HD channel recording Dr. Phil in SD is going to take up as much space as an hour off the CBS HD channel recording CSI: Miami in HD. So, it behooves you to set your SPs for shows that aren't in HD on the SD channel, not the HD channel.

    It's going to take up about 8.5 GB per hour (assuming a gigabyte is 1024 megabytes, not 1000 megabytes). An HD channel is 19.38 Mbps (though, it may be less if they are using some bandwidth for secondary streams) = 2.4225 MBps = 145.35 MB per minute = 8721 MB per hour = 8.51 GB per hour.

    The one exception from that general practice of using the same resolution 24/7 is PBS. Many PBS affiliates actually change the resolution from 1080i in primetime and on weekends to 480i during the weekday and late night. They do this to activate an additional multi-stream, which goes off the air when the main channel is in HD. When you record something off the PBS ATSC channel at a time they're not broadcasting in HD, the disk space it takes up will be much smaller.
     
  4. knownzero

    knownzero Seeker

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Well, I said I was going to wait...HA! Like that's going to happen. :) I went to CC tonight and picked one up, I'm powering up right now and I'm going to start the setup process. I don't have the cabe cards yet but I have an antenna and I have some local HD channels that I can pick up (at least they do with my ATI HDTV Wonder card). I moved one of my old Tivo's service numbers over to the new Tivo which was pretty painless (I'm really glad I had a couple Tivo's on the old pricing plan, the new prices are harsh).

    Edit: Why didn't anyone tell me that OTA HD looks so much better than what the Motorola HD box puts out? :mad: :) Picture looks fantastic! Although I have to go through and delete about 50 channels from the OTA antenna that I can't actually get. Overall impressions so far are that the picture looks great, no pixellation, menu's are a lot more responsive than my S2. So far, I'm impressed.
     
  5. netslacker

    netslacker New Member

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    Jul 25, 2007
    Pardon my intrusion... I have become an avid reader of this forum since the release of the TiVo HD just a couple days ago and this thread is dealing w/ a question that I have always had concerning the recording of HD and SD content.

    It stands to reason that if you are recording from a digital channel (say 5.1) where all the content is upconverted to 1080i that anything recorded off that channel (either SD originally or HD) is taking up the whole 8.5gb / hour. Afterall, that is how the signal is being received by the tuner.

    However, in my area (as well as others), all the shows are simulcast in digital SD on say channel 5.2 where everything is sent at 480i on the digital sub-channel. Now I am not talking about NTSC/analog broadcasting, but rather the digital sub-channel of the same network.

    So here's my assumptions and questions:

    Assuming the above 1080i computation of ~8.5gb of disk space per hour then it stands to reason that 480i digital is going to be ~2-3gb per hour - being less than 1/4 the resolution.. (also assuming that digital signals are not reprocessed by the TiVo but stored to the drive as they are received). The compression settings only apply to NTSC/Analog signals and have no affect on an SD/HD digital signal.

    Does TiVo HD (or Series 3) have TWO (2) ATSC tuners to tune OTA digital content or just one? I have seen this represented both ways and this is rather a make or break specification. Having a dual ATSC tuner DVR for OTA digital channels is the clincher that will make this new Tivo my next tech purchase. I cannot tune the analog signals as they are too weak (and no cable in the mountains), but my Sony ATSC tuner gets 20+ different digital channels OTA just fine and in perfect picture.

    I have been eagerly waiting for TiVo to come out w/ an affordable HD DVR and now I just need to get these few questions cleared before making the dive BACK to TiVo.

    Thanks in advance,
    Rob
     
  6. c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    Sep 8, 2000
    Silicon...
    two
     
  7. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

    35,116
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    Jan 23, 2002
    Philadelphia...
    On an OTA channel, the TV station decides how much bandwidth to devote to each of the streams broadcast on their channel. It is given a total of 19.38 Mbps to work with. It can essentially split that up however it likes. The TiVo will just capture what it receives. Mbps can mathematically be converted to GB per hour. For simplicity, just multiply the bandwidth in mbps by 0.44 to obtain GB per hour.

    It has two digital OTA tuners, two digital cable tuners, two analog OTA tuners and two analog cable tuners. Any two of these tuners can be used at the same time.
     
  8. knownzero

    knownzero Seeker

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Verified. I just recorded an HD show OTA and then switched to another HD OTA show without problems.
     
  9. Sandlapper

    Sandlapper New Member

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    Oct 26, 2003
    Greenville, SC
    Well, there is a difference. For some reason the SD shows on the HD channels look better than they do on the analog channels, so I still tell it to record it on the HD channel. I guess its just the difference in one being a digital channel and the other analog.
     
  10. knownzero

    knownzero Seeker

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    Feb 26, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Interesting issue just came up. I'm watching the Tivo Video tours (yeah Shannon!) and the audio has completely dropped out (have it hooked up via HDMI). Until I play another video the menus have no sound. When I do hit play, there's a couple popping sounds and everything goes back to normal. Not sure what's causing it, the HDMI, my TV or the Tivo...
     
  11. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

    35,116
    71
    Jan 23, 2002
    Philadelphia...
    Yes, there is a difference in quality. The question is whether the difference is worth 8X the hard disk space. That's a question only you can answer.
     
  12. netslacker

    netslacker New Member

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    Jul 25, 2007
    @c3
    @aindik
    @knownzero

    wow! that was fast and great response! What an awesome forum! Thanks for the replies, this is all great news for me as this has been two years in the making since we moved and had to give up my series 2....
     
  13. knownzero

    knownzero Seeker

    4,959
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    Feb 26, 2001
    Columbus OH
    No problem, welcome to the forums! I can't wait to get the cablecards installed and get rid of the darn cableco DVR.
     
  14. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    The improvement you see is the result of 1) a higher quality source and 2) less compression.

    Most cable providers encode their SD digital channels at 528x480 or 544x480. In contrast, on the HD channels, most networks upconvert the original D1 source (720x480).

    Upconverted SD is also less highly compressed (relatively) than digital SD.
     
  15. jfh3

    jfh3 New Member

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    Apr 15, 2004
    Denver area
    Wow. Guess we'll have to wait for Stephen or Pony to weigh in on this one.

    If it were me, I'd ask for a case # and to be transfered to a supervisor - that's a pretty big (and unannounced) policy change, if true.
     
  16. supasta

    supasta New Member

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    May 6, 2006
    Colorado
    Enable TTG and MRV on the TiVoHD and I will pick 2 up in a snap to replace my 2 DT units. That is #1. Second only to that is the cost/options of eSATA storage expansion.
     
  17. jfh3

    jfh3 New Member

    4,469
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    Apr 15, 2004
    Denver area
    Buy the first box from Tivo with the $299 prepaid. Buy the second box from a retailer and get the 3 yr month to month.

    Yes, but a DirecTV lifetime sub stays with the account, not the box, so I'd be surprised if you get much for it on eBay.

    Can't answer for sure about Seattle area, but an additional outlet charge should not apply. As for the CableCARDs, the first is included in any digital package, the second should be $1.50, so maybe $1.91 has some other fees included in that price.
     
  18. btwyx

    btwyx Substantive Member

    11,331
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    Jan 16, 2003
    Mountain...
    Most cost efficient would be to buy an HD TiVo and put the money saved vs the S3 towards an HD upgrade. Most time efficient would be to buy a pre upgraded one from Weaknees or other vendor.

    If I were buying one today, I'd be be buying an HD TiVO and a 1TB upgrade.
     
  19. megory

    megory Advanced TiVoOligan

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    Jan 22, 2003
    BH, South...
    Please explain the advantages of that? I'm thoroughly confused now about 3-year month-to-month, etc.
     
  20. megory

    megory Advanced TiVoOligan

    1,411
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    Jan 22, 2003
    BH, South...
    Go Hokies and Rainwater: Thanks, I think I'll order from Circuit City. Seems like a bad decision for TiVo to make their pricing plan so convoluted that we need to buy elsewhere . . . but, um, that's not my problem.

    But don't you think I'm safer if I cancel my TiVo service before my month is up (July 5), and then get new 3-year service from TiVo?
     

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