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Official Comcast CableCard Thread!

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by amjustice, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    No. I mean the cable companies can make it so that with a CC1.0 card in the slot you only can get a few channels.
     
  2. MiamiMan

    MiamiMan New Member

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    My understanding is that I would still have to pay the $5.00 HDTV fee.

    Bicker-- If the cable company can make the CC1.0 card limited, then doesn't this violate the spirit of the FCC requirements? If Comcast sees a loophole, then surely the FCC could simply issue a new order.

    By the way, I suspect there's some confusion about CC2.0 which has been mentioned in this forum. I tried to find information on this new CC2.0 card but I can't find anything on the internet. A version 2 CableCard would be big news, so where is the scoop?

    I did, however, find something about CableLabs certifying a new multistream CableCard (or M-Card). which allows decoding of two digital signals simultaneously, but these are still considered class 1.0 devices. Shouldn't they be able to work in a Series 3?

    (I tried to post the url to the site, but the tread didn't allow it).

    I would guess that the M-Card would work in a Series 3 but only as a single stream. After all it' still a version 1.0 card, right? Of course it would still take 2 M-Cards, but it should work just like the old single-stream cards. In the future, Tivo could design their sets with just one CableCard slot to work with the M-Card.

    If the M-Card (or CC2.0) can't work in a Series 3 as a single stream, where is the information that confirms this. Is this what Tivo is saying?
     
  3. MiamiMan

    MiamiMan New Member

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    I found this from the National Cable & Telecommunications Association dated September 25, 2006 (edited):

    ---------------
    Multistream CableCARDs. CableLabs has qualified a Multistream CableCARD device from CISCO/Scientific-
    Atlanta. Since our last report, CableLabs has qualified a Multistream CableCARD device from
    Motorola. So, both Motorola and CISCO/Scientific-Atlanta MultiStream CableCARDs are now
    qualified.

    The Multistream CableCARD will operate in a backwards compatible, single-stream manner with a single stream device (e.g., in a unidirectional digital cable ready device) or in the multi-stream manner when paired with a multi-stream device (e.g., OCAP 2.0 devices). . . . CableCARDs will be available from major MSOs within the next few months.
    ---------------

    It appears to me that the new M-Cards should work in a Series 3.
     
  4. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Nov 9, 2003
    Georgia
    Laws and regulations are written down so that everyone can know what is actually required. "Violating the spirit" is a term often used by people unhappy with the fact that they didn't get their way in terms of the laws and regulations -- that the laws and regulations didn't require what they wanted the laws and regulations to require. This is very common, since laws and regulations typically balance opposing needs. In this case, the FCC's regulations balance what's good for consumers and what's good for investors in companies that provide service. That balance means that neither side gets what they really want.

    The FCC regulation requires that cable companies support consumer electronics. It does not and will not ever require them to support CableCard (1.0 or even 2.0) forever. CC1.0 has been supported for a while, and eventually it would make sense to move to CC2.0. Consumers relying on CC1.0 to last them forever are operating on a false assumption. More and more now, in our highly technological society, consumers have the same obligation to keep up with the latest technology as service providers do.

    It's not a loophole. It's a deliberate measure of flexibility in the regulations, provided so as to provide sufficient incentive for business to innovate, and be able to adequate serve the needs of investors, you and me trying to earn enough money for a comfortable retirement.

    Here's the information on CableCard 2.0 that you're looking for:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD#CableCARD_2.0
     
  5. MiamiMan

    MiamiMan New Member

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    bicker -- I understand your concern and I agree that Comcast shouldn't have to support CableCard forever, but the same applies to any service or device. But I don't think that's the issue that concerns us now. Right now, the cable companies do have to support CableCard. Some people on these forums (I was one) fear that the new M-Cards that are being released will somehow obsolete the Series 3 box. I see no evidence of this at all. Everything I'm reading suggests that the M-Cards will work fine with the Series 3, and will work just like the old single-stream CableCard. I also read that Tivo had already planned for the M-Cards but because of delays, they had to include 2 CableCard slots.

    CableCard 2.0 isn't out yet so that's not a concern right now. Even when it comes out, I don't see how it would obsolete the Series 3. Once I have my CableCards (CC1.0) installed and working, it shouldn't cost Comcast a cent more, so why shouldn't they support them? I will still have the Comcast box for PPV, etc. so why would Comcast not support them? Five years down the road, these issues may be entirely different, and I expect (and hope) that the technology will grow dramatically. Tivo (or some other manufacturer) will probably come out with a device that will make the Series 3 obsolete. I still have a Series 1 and a Series 2 but my Series 3 makes them obsolete to me. Great. I don't expect support forever, but I do expect something better down the road to replace it.
     
  6. Adam1115

    Adam1115 20,000!!! TCF Club

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    Ok, wait, you're confusing two completely different things.

    There are THREE types of cablecards.

    CableCard 1.0- Regular single stream cable cards that are in use now.

    Multi-Stream CableCard 1.0- Multi-stream version of a cablecard 1.0, which was approved 7/6/2006 by CableLabs. The purpose of this card is to allow multiple tuners to work off of a single card. It appears the Series3 can support these with a future software update. Without the update, this card will function as a single stream card.

    CableCard 2.0- Support two-way features such as Pay-per-view, Video on Demand, more advanced programming guide. CableCard 2.0 is not compatible with CableCard 1.0 devices.

    Since there aren't really any TV's or STB's that support CableCARD 2.0, I doubt they are being rolled out by comcast. The cable guys probably don't know what they are talking about or are talking about a multistream 1.0 card.

    Regardless, if they ARE supporting cablecard 2.0, they won't work in the Series 3. Maybe in the next generation Series3?

    As far as cable company's not supporting cablecard, thats ridiculous. It is mandated that they start installing STB's that use cablecard vs. integrated security. Granted, they will be cablecard 2.0, but they will be supporting cablecard!
     
  7. Brainiac 5

    Brainiac 5 New Member

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    Columbia,...
    Here is what Pony said about this a while back.

    Among other things, it says:
    Unless I'm mistaken, SCARDS are what we have now.
     
  8. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    That I don't see. CC2.0 might, but M-Cards won't.

    The point is that CC2.0 supports everything that the cable companies see wrong with CC1.0. Since, as you point out, they have to support some means of supporting CE devices, they have a great incentive to move from CC1.0 to CC2.0 as soon as they possibly can.

    "Obsolete" is a strong word, and not a word that I have ever used in this context. Rather CC2.0 will provide a means for cable companies to quickly eat-away at the value the S3 represents to its owners. In a way that might be "good" for both the cable companies and TiVo: The cable companies restore their VOD and PPV channels. TiVo gets to sell a new series of DVR to the same early adopters who just a handful of years prior bought the S3 at the early-adopter price. The issue, though, this time, is that the S3 is too late -- we already can see the S4 on the horizon, and so many aren't going to buy the S3 that would have done so perhaps as little as a year earlier.

    Indeed. However, they can start moving services from CC1.0 to CC2.0 and for each you'll be faced with the choice between upgrading to a different STB (and thereby losing the remaining value in your S3) or doing without. While you might think the cable companies would have a motivation not to do that, because it would make you angry and maybe make you switch to satellite, the cable companies actually have a much better idea about how many people would fall into your category. From all their actions, it seems clear that they know that this is a really small category of customer, that no one is really quite concerned about, with the possible exception of TiVo, a very small company.
     
  9. arangok

    arangok New Member

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    We just purchased a Tivo S3.

    We have comcast basic cable (in Reston, VA) and on our HDTV, we get the network HD channels.... (NBC, CBS, etc...)

    When we plug that same cable into the Tivo box, it does not find those network HD channels.

    We have not gotten a cableCard yet, but were expecting to see what we saw with the cable plugged directly into our HDTV.

    Anyone else have this problem? Any advice?

    Do we need the cableCard to see the network HD channels?

    Thanks,

    Karen
     
  10. ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    You're not seeing them because you only have basic (presumably analog) cable service. You'll need to subscribe to digital cable to see the network HD channels, but you shouldn't need CableCard.
     
  11. kido

    kido New Member

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    You might do a channel scan to see what comes up. I would think if your TV can see HD channels, then your TiVo will be able to as well. However, for you to get the TiVo guide data to match up with the channels, you may need to get cablecards.
     
  12. MiamiMan

    MiamiMan New Member

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    I also just got my S3 and I don't have the CableCards installed yet and I get the network HD channels (although the channel numbers use seven characters instead of three). Did you go through the channel set up and choose Comcast? You might also try using the Channel Scan feature.
     
  13. arangok

    arangok New Member

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    Thanks for all the responses. We were able to see the network HD channels when the cable was plugged directly into the HDTV.

    I did a channel scan, and it found a lot of HD channels.... in fact, the funny thing is.... I was able to see channels, like 110-01.... which is an On Demand channel... they were in the clear, unencrypted... I was really surprised at this. I could see all of the OnDemand that my neighbors had ordered.... even the XXX stuff... yikes...

    But, not able to get NBC-HD.... which when plugged directly into my TV came in as channel 4-5.

    Any ideas on what higher numbers the network channels came in on... I could type it in manually and see if I get it.
     
  14. arangok

    arangok New Member

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    I meant to say digital channels... some were in HD, but others were SD.

    Also, most of them were encrypted, only a few were in the clear, and I could see what was on them. The channels were like 83-1..... all the way through 113-1 or so, with lots of sub channels.
     
  15. c3

    c3 TiVoholic

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    Silicon...
    4-5 is a logical channel, not the physical RF channel. If your TV can tell you what the RF equivalent is, use that to find it on the S3.
     
  16. MiamiMan

    MiamiMan New Member

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    arangok, in the Miami Fl area, Tivo assigns the NBC HD channel as 118-211 (or 118-11 in the Info window) but these channel assignments vary depending on the cable provider. Try starting at 100 and single stepping though all the channels and see what you get.
     
  17. Adam1115

    Adam1115 20,000!!! TCF Club

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    The TiVo will receive these channels, but without calecards it is not capable of providing guide information. Hopefully at some point TiVo will address the issue.

    If you can't get your locals OTA, you'll need to get cablecards.
     
  18. arangok

    arangok New Member

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    Dec 10, 2006

    Yeah, great idea. We thought of this also.... we have a samsung dlp hdtv, and it does not give us that mapping between logical channel and rf

    or... we do not know how to get it... any ideas on this? Is there a website you would recommend that has the mapping? perhaps for Reston, VA?

    I appreciate everyone's help... I am so frustrated!
     
  19. BMWDobro

    BMWDobro New Member

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    Nov 29, 2006
    Success in Puyallup, WA (near Tacoma). Picked up Tivio S3 on Thurdsay, picked up Cable Cards on Friday, then installed and connected CableCards on Saturday. Although the Comcast CSR had some reservations with the Cable Cards, we had no problems and were done within 20 minutes.
    Thanks to all who have posted previously and passed along their knowledge and experience!
     
  20. arangok

    arangok New Member

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    Dec 10, 2006
    So, it turns out that the frequency that Comcast is broadcasting its network HD channels is coming through on channel 112-xx.... and Tivo is not picking them up. We can see that the channel is there and it has a strong signal strength... but it looks like it is encrypted.

    I think we have to get a cableCard to see them.
     

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