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Now the ads are p***ing me off

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by james.92, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Dec 6, 2007 #41 of 384
    nirisahn

    nirisahn Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    TiVo has to make money somehow. And since whether or not to watch the ad is a choice, it doesn't bother me in the least. As someone said, TiVo is already expensive enough (if you don't have lifetime). Given a choice between raising their fees even higher, and targeted ads, I vote for targeted ads.

    There is a limit to how much TiVo can charge for their service. People are already complaining that it's too expensive. TiVo needs to bring in enough revenue to stay afloat or we'll all be stuck with the crummy dvrs from the cable and satellite companies.

    Those of you who are highly offended by the ads - can you think of an alternative to help TiVo stay afloat without raising their prices again? My guess is that if you can, the powers that be at TiVo would love to hear it. They only stay in business if they make people happy, and they're already having enough trouble doing that, as is evidenced by all the customer service and pricing complaints.

    Advertising is what supports almost all entertainment. At some point, we have to deal with it on some level. What TiVo is doing is the least annoying and least obtrusive I've seen yet. If there are any better ideas out there, let's hear them.
     
  2. Dec 6, 2007 #42 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    Nope. But I can say I have yet to see the first post in all these many threads on someone telling me they cancelled. What proof do you have that anyone has cancelled over the ads? TiVo inc. seems to continuously point happily to increased revenue from ads, so they must not be feeling any perceptible loss of subs over ads
    yes, but that is an easy inaction on your part. Sure it would hurt Tivo if you actually would have bought another TiVo otherwise, but the inaction is easy. My point is that no one TRULY dislikes the ads as much as you all claim as actions speak louder than posts, sell the lifetimed unit and use a different DVR then I, and more importantly TiVo inc., will take you or anyone else seriously
    See reply to number 1.Sure any annoying thing can casue loss of users. heck these stupid ad rant threads have probably lost readers of the forum :D I am sure it is monthly price at the root of resistence to TiVo with ads being lumped in with other stuff in the Pie chart slice marked "other". Feel free to show me the opposite is true.
    umm, so your argument is that yes, TiVo is making increased revenue off the ads and those revenues are increasing quarter over quarter but TiVo had better stop since you perceive a significant number of lost subscriptions even though few(mainly you) have said they are not getting any more TivO subs and no one has posted as to actually cancelling/selling due to ads.

    Somehow though it is my argument that does not make sense :rolleyes:

    also your insulting ending just discredits you further.

    So if people keep wanting to spew out ad rants, I will keep pointing out that posting a rant in an online forum will do little to stop the ads.
     
  3. Dec 6, 2007 #43 of 384
    minckster

    minckster New Member

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    Wouldn't your counter claim still be true even TiVo lost 49% of its customers because of the ads? That's a thin reed on which to hang your hat. [Edit to add: Just a bit of teasing. I'm not interested in joining yours and Mike's match. I'll just watch. The popcorn's in the mic now.]

    It's probably not too controversial to say that the advertising has led to negligible cancellations. (Zero, if I had to place a bet.) The more interesting argument is whether the advertising reduces TiVo's sales - particularly to the extent that it overwhelms the advertising revenue. I don't know and am interested to see if people can convince me one way or the other.

    I'll add one data-point to the anti-advertising crowd. It's doesn't take too much reputation effect to lose a sale. I stayed away from TiVo for years, based solely on fears that TiVo tracks its subscribers' viewing habits. I could imagine that there are people who see a little blurb on engadget about advertsing on TiVo and forego any consideration of buying a TiVo. I just don't have a feel as to whether there are many of those people.
     
  4. Dec 6, 2007 #44 of 384
    Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    No, I haven't sold anything. I've got 1 lifetime and 1 MSD machine. I made the decision that these were probably my last TiVos when they came out with the new and "improved" pricing scheme that struck me as both expensive and confusing. I wasn't exceptionally sure about that and really pretty down because I really like my TiVo, just made a mental note that new TiVo's probably weren't in my future.

    Recently with the lifetime offers I started researching a TiVo HD and/or Series 3. It was on my Christmas list, but I've made it quite clear to my wife that I'm not interested any longer because I'm that offended by the beep. The audio beep has solidified my view that when my MSD TiVo dies (or I no longer qualify because the lifetime dies and can't be repaired) then TiVo will have seen their last dollar of mine unless their stance on this ridiculous audio beep and their pricing structure changes. As you can tell in my post, I'm not a fan of the other ads but I'm generally ok with them because I don't find them intrusive.

    The audio stuff crossed the line where they're making experience decisions based on effective advertising rather than doing their best to make my experience with their product great, it represents to me a fundamental shift in the company's focus. Apparently I, as a consumer, can't support their business model and that's fine, but I'm not going to pay a premium for their product anymore.
     
  5. Dec 6, 2007 #45 of 384
    nirisahn

    nirisahn Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    What beep? Mine doesn't beep when an ad link comes up. Then again, I have all sound effects turned off because I don't like any sound effects at all from my machines. Same for my computer - I keep it muted unless I'm watching something for which I want the sound.

    Maybe the solution is as simple as turning off the TiVo's sound effects.
     
  6. Dec 6, 2007 #46 of 384
    Rooster

    Rooster New Member

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    My issue is with a different advertising than the OP's issue. I'm not 100% clear on the specifics, but if you fast forward past a commercial that normally has one of those TiVo pop ups you get an annoying beep. It may not be on all those TiVo pop ups, but it happens when you're fast forwarding through commercials.
     
  7. Dec 6, 2007 #47 of 384
    nirisahn

    nirisahn Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    I don't hear those, either. I wonder if it's because I have sound effects turned off. I never hear any kind of beeping when I'm fast forwarding or when the pop-ups come up at the end of a recording along with the option to keep or delete.
     
  8. Dec 6, 2007 #48 of 384
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    What???? Are you making an educated guess, or do you any facts that point to this?
     
  9. Dec 6, 2007 #49 of 384
    Fraser+Dief

    Fraser+Dief New Member

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    People need to learn what slippery slope is. It's when you lead to *unrelated* and incredulous claims, IE starting with tivo ads and ending up with the fall of civilisation.

    It is not a slippery slope to complain about ads starting to appear in one place, and then appearing in another, and another, and another.

    Because that's exactly what happened. In less that a year, I've gone from no ads, to ads on my main menu, ads in my features, ads in my commercials, ads in my pop up choices.

    Damn right it pisses us off. Can't even get the freakin' guide data right for two+ months or bugs fixed in the software for over a year, but hey, we don't have time to deal with trivial items like that, we've got our entire staff working on ad delivery.
     
  10. Dec 6, 2007 #50 of 384
    mrmike

    mrmike Custom User Title

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    All of these except the delete ones have been on my boxes longer than a year. What hardware do you have?
     
  11. Dec 6, 2007 #51 of 384
    ah30k

    ah30k Active Member

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    With comments like this you've lost all credibility. Nonsensical exaggeration (or untruths) doesn't build up your point.
     
  12. Dec 6, 2007 #52 of 384
    fredct

    fredct New Member

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    No, its not:
    In debate or rhetoric, the slippery slope is an argument for the likelihood of one event or trend given another. It suggests that an action will initiate a chain of events culminating in an undesirable event later. The argument is sometimes referred to as the thin end of the wedge or the camel's nose.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope


    A slippery slope argument is any connection of events. I'm not saying a slippery slope can never happen or come true. It can. But its also a logical fallacy to assume that just become one thing has, another will.

    You're entitled to your own opinions and preferences, and your own purchasing decisions. But for many of us, the line TiVo can't cross is to effect the usage by causing extra button pushes or dismissal of an ad before you can complete normal acts. That's a pretty bright line, and I think TiVo is well aware of that barrier, because they are so focused on user interface. If they push past it, they'll be reminded the hard way.
     
  13. Dec 6, 2007 #53 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    yes that is how it works. If you are FFing a commercial and the commercial has a billboard ad on it and your TiVo sounds are on then it will make a chime sound (not a beep, though annoying is in the ear of the beholder).

    I purposefully said nothing about the chime to see what my family would say and once they have said nothing at all though we have heard it maybe 4 times now.

    it does still seem like pricing is more of a concern for you than the ads. The sound was the last straw veruss the real reason from how I read your post.
     
  14. Dec 6, 2007 #54 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    no, if TiVo was loosing 2% of its customers due to ads then it would be a very bad business decision for them to continue ads. (rough guess as I did not crunch any numbers for this)

    at 49% I would not be posting here as Tivo obviously crossed the clear bright line adn jumped off the ad cliff. I would most likely have found some other DVR method as TiVo would be truly dead at that point and thus no longer hang out in this forum as it would most likely be a HTPC capable of cable cards and I would need to be in 3 other forums to get it all working correctly ;)
     
  15. Dec 7, 2007 #55 of 384
    Rooster

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    I think it's quite the opposite. The pricing really had me saying, "TiVo is a great product, but too pricey for me now." I'd say the same thing about a Corvette even though I'd love to own one. The recent lifetime promotion was enough to overcome that "too pricey" part and seriously consider a purchase. The chime (I like that term better, thanks) to me now says "TiVo isn't about satisfying me anymore, they're catering to the advertisers now." The chime isn't a feature for the users, I can't imagine anyone saying, "Wow, I don't know how I lived without the chime when I'm fast forwarding commercials."

    When I first heard it, I didn't know it was the TiVo even though I'd read something about it earlier. I immediately thought some other electronic device was trying to alert me to some problem or something. My wife, having no idea asked me "What was that?" It wasn't until the 2nd time I heard it that I made the connection and only because I remembered reading something about it (my wife said, "There it is again"). It's not intuitive to the user what the purpose of the chime is, it's not something I find valuable, and I find it intrusive to the point of being offensive. It's only reason to exist is to benefit advertisers (and thereby TiVo indirectly). I don't like paying a premium for a product or service to cater to someone else's wants.

    The pricing changed the value proposition for owning a TiVo for me and it was largely overcome by a special offer, the chime changed my opinion of the company and it's product and it can really only be overcome by a reversal on the part of TiVo and even then I'll have some lingering doubts about where TiVo's priorities are. For TiVo, I think the latter is far more damaging, but I'm just one consumer.

    Your post has provoked some thought, though. I'm going to give serious consideration this weekend to canceling the MSD machine and letting the TiVo CSR know exactly why they're not getting my money anymore. It's more likely I'll stick with my original plan, but the idea will receive serious consideration.
     
  16. Dec 7, 2007 #56 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    fair enough. the chime does indeed serve solely to alert the viewer to a thumbs up ad. It fits my own litmus test of not having to do anything differently to operate my TiVo and being able to ignore any ad or use it as my sole discretion. Your threshold is obviously lower in that the noise is the line. Did you see the comments on turning off sounds? of course that may not work for you as I can see wanting the other sounds for feedback on remote presses.

    So let us know how your decision goes, in all my posts someone might think I am a defender of the ads but I am not really, all the ads could go tomorrow and I would only miss movie trailers somewhat and can get them in various TiVocasts anyway. I just wanted the threads to turn to discussions that would get TiVo inc.'s attention versus just the obvious "Do not like ads".
     
  17. Dec 7, 2007 #57 of 384
    Rooster

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    You bring up an interesting point. I'm ok with ignoring the delete ads, but this chime seriously bothers me. My line is how intrusive they are. I feel the audio makes me take notice of something because it's out of the ordinary and it's not too uncommon for devices to beep at you to alert you of a problem. The first place I checked on the initial beep was my cell phone, it was new and I wasn't used to all the sounds so I wondered if it had a low battery or a text message came. For me, it's difficult to ignore the chime and, truth be known, I kind of felt like I was sent on a wild goose chase to find out what it was. Had I not read something prior, it probably would've taken a few more times to figure out what was going on.

    Out of curiosity, would you be ok if audio stared playing while you were fast forwarding all the time? Maybe it would say, "Pepto Bismol - it's the only one that coats. Buy it at your local Wallgreens." and change it up every time. What if they used every time when there's no sound to randomly play some sort of radio-type ad. The now playing screen, all the menus, the delete screen, etc. could all have audio thrown in now and then since there's otherwise mostly silence. That would be clearly over my line, but it wouldn't require anything different to operate your TiVo.

    For further anecdotal and largely unrelated thought. I also was fairly offended last year at a local radio station that used a sound that was identical to the ones in your car that would alert you to the door being open, a check engine light, low fuel, etc and they'd play that a second or so before their station identification. I was monumentally bothered because I was fooled for an instant into thinking something was wrong with my car several times only to realize it was a marketing gimmick. In that case, my biggest frustration was that they were desensitizing me to an otherwise important sound, so it's a bit different than in this case. I've largely stopped listening to that station, but I wonder if you would've reacted the same way.

    I did see that post about turning off sound effects, but I do think they're a rather important part of the whole experience. I like the audio feedback for pressing remote buttons. Maybe I'll try it and see if I can live without the audio, but I hate that I have to modify how I use the TiVo to get around a feature that was added for the benefit of someone else.
     
  18. Dec 7, 2007 #58 of 384
    ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    I have had a fairly high tolerance to sounds my whole life so I do tend to tune them out easier then most. I was surprised my wife, who hates unneeded noises, did not get annoyed by the chime but she has not remarked on it yet at all.

    now the sound angle does have the same kind of point of no return for TiVo as ads in the wrong place do. The chime is a pleasant enough sound and only lasts a second so I guess that is mainly why the chime is no big deal to me and probably wont generate a lot of issues for TiVo.
    Spoken words are much, much harder to ignore and of course would last much longer. I suspect that is a line that TiVo would be best to not cross at the risk of loosing significant subs.

    In a way this is like a corollary to my litmus test in that chimes I can ignore and they do not change how I interact with the TiVo but spoken words or other longer lasting sounds would be hard to ignore and would indeed change the way I interact with the DVR.
     
  19. Dec 7, 2007 #59 of 384
    TonyD79

    TonyD79 Well-Known Member

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    Wait, let me get this right. You are using as your lead argument Tivo's corporate decision making? This is a technology company that posted a loss of customers in the most recent quarterly reports? Who says their marketing expertise and business sense is good? In fact, I think Tivo's marketing and business strategy stinks and it always has. That is why they are not king of the mountain today. Little foresight. Bad advertising. A business model that ties themselves to hardware when their main competence is software.
     
  20. Dec 7, 2007 #60 of 384
    Shawn95GT

    Shawn95GT Tivo, in HD!

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    I don't like ads on the Tivo either, but Tivo did it elegantly.

    Press thumbs up to record or for more info on commercials is cool by me. I'm not a huge fan of the showcase or star ads on the main menu, but at least they are on the bottom. I have to go out of my way to click one.

    Same goes for the end of recording ads. If it really bugs you, left arrow out before the very end of the recording and you'll never see it. Again, if this ad is there it is at the very end of the list and you have to really go out of your way to select it.

    I'm not saying 'bring on the ads', I'm just saying Tivo does it well. The cable STBs are a LOT less subtle with their interactive ads.
     

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