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Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by hybucket, Jul 13, 2007.
The latter. The Cablecard decrypts what comes over the coax.
Not at all. I'm not questioning the fact that Tivo didn't start working on this in January (thanks Dave for the 14 months, that puts us about 3-4 months before S3 shipped).
Saying that this was designed at the same time as the S3 is a whole different thing - not to mention completely wrong if Dave's information is correct, plus I'll bet some of the components used weren't available 2 years ago (which is when the S3 would have been designed). Presenting this as an "opinion" doesn't make it any less incorrect.
BTW, thanks for correcting my spelling mistake, I'm sure you've never made a spelling error ever.
Forgive me, I meant to say "Planned" at the same time not designed. I agree, they designed the original Series 3 first.
OK, gotcha - that makes a lot more sense.
Branding. The unit is still a Series3 - even has the logo on the lower front panel. But 'TiVo HD' is definitely a catchier brand for marketing. It tells you right in the name what it is - TiVo in HD. 'Series3' doesn't do that - only people who already know TiVo nomenclature know S3 means HD.
Aha - things are getting clearer now. I went nuts trying to find specs on that chip and I never could, just a general note on utilization for the family of chips.
So it does look like the ViXS is doing the analog encoding.
Time and economies of scale.
Component prices *always* drop with time. So they may not replace the S2DT this year, maybe early next year. But at some point the cost of the components will decline enough to make it worth while to garner the cost savings of eliminating the older design.
On top of that you get economies of scale. Building 100 each of two designs generally costs more than building 200 of one design. You can buy larger quantities of components and get better discounts. You get more efficiencies from the production lines.
So any word on Lifetime transfers?
TiVo says they have no plans for lifetime transfers to the TiVo HD at this time.
I guess I'll need to get one sometime later this year. Hopefully by then I'll be able to do a lifetime transfer.
In my case the DVR is only $4.95/month (if I sub to HBO or SHO which I HAVE to do in order to get HBO-HD and/or SHO-HD), and no monthly rental box fee.
plus $1.95 x 2 for Cable cards/month
plus $300 for box
I think I'll just wait and see what SDV and TTG/MRV holds and continue to use my MythTV box with QAM.
I'd be surprised if there were a lot of S3 inventory lying around. If they've known this box was coming for 14 months, there won't be many S3s in the production pipeline for Q3 and Q4, and they've already had a big sale (i.e., the rebate offer). And they've been dumping the refurbs on the web site with a nice offer, which probably indicates they are pretty low on inventory.
But HDTiVo is soooo much smoother.
The thing about time is that it also erodes your price point, so sometimes you are gaining and sometimes you may be not gaining much.
I agree about economies of scale; the thing I need to get past is that this TiVo HD is chock full of stuff, so how do you get econ of scale to overcome all that silicon goodness and/or how do you change the parts w/o ruining econ of scale. Then how do you make that cheaper overall than a specific bare bones cost reduced S2 only re-design.
Compare it to the S2DT - is it really that much more? The S2DT has two Broadcom encoders, the same models use in the S3. TiVo told me they didn't use those because the system in the HD costs less - both the chips and the space savings on the board. There really isn't a lot of extra stuff in the TiVo HD - add the analog inputs and it would basically be a 180-hr S2DT with CableCARD support.
And with an increasing number of cable systems going digital, that may become a key factor too.
Once the TiVo OCAP software rolls out - that could eat their low-end a bit.
Would you still use the 7401? How much RAM? What tuners? The transcoder chip? etc...
What features would this have? HDMI out? Record SD (incl. digital cable) only? HD size?
Same as the TiVo HD PLUS analog input. Just as each generation of box that has replaced the previous generation has tended to be better, faster, and do more. I could see TiVo moving to all-HD boxes, retiring the S2DT completely.
It may sound like a big jump - but keep in mind the S1 had models that sold for a grand - and didn't compare at all to the $300 TiVo HD. The S2DT is only less expensive than the HD due to the rebate.
Let's be careful about comparing things from several years ago as well as comparing prices which have unseen factors like margin differences.
But I will keep this idea in mind especially with regard to the TiVo HD Spec thread.
That is really a shame. I think they would sell a LOT of TIVOHD boxes to old Series 1 users.
There wouldn't be TIVO without those folks who ponied up $499 for 14 hours or $999 for 30 hours. Geez, throw a bone to the long-time members of the TIVOlution
TIVO is a business and needs to make money. It's not like you can say they are making huge $$$ on these new $299 boxes.
They could come out with Gen 4 Tivo in 3 years and we'd still see people unhappy if they didn't grandfather in the Gen 1 owners for a small fee.
I'm a series 1 lifetime owner who would jump at the transfer. As it is, I'm probably going to replace a non-upgraded s2 with this new box, and keep my upgraded/networked s1 chugging along.