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New Daylight Savings Time Update for Series1

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by TiVoPony, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    Jan 6, 2007
    Thanks for posting the specifics.

    It is just good to know how something is implemented so we can know the caveats.

    So this is essentially the TZ-offset workaround with extra validation.

    Infinitely better than what was there before. Thanks jberman, et al.
  2. RARamaker

    RARamaker New Member

    Dec 1, 2000
    Grandville, MI
    How disappointing that TiVo was able to fix the Series 1 DirecTV TiVos, but not the SA TiVo (the ones you still pay $12.95/mo for). Please don't insult us by saying that no solution could be found. The solution consists of changing the formula for computing the daylight savings times.

    What TiVoPony obviously meant was that no solution could be found that didn't involve a full software update. This is likely expensive to download this over a modem and the accountants said NO.

    Let's stop pretending that the change was hard or even significantly different from the Series 2 fix. It was purely a financial decision.

    This new fix, developed by a member of the community, was just the opportunity the engineers needed to convince management that they could do a low cost update.

    In the future, I wish TiVo would come clean about the support that we can expect on Series 1 machines.

  3. yelapa

    yelapa New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    We have an ancient Sony SVR 2000 with an added 100Gig drive upgrade and we ordered the DST patch. It was apparently downloaded this morning (3/17/07) at 11:00 by phone, a different time than the usual 2:00 a.m. schedule update.

    For several hours, the status of the "Phone Connection" was said to be "Loading Data" with no change to the 1 hour error situation, but no other problems either. Finally, at 7:00 p.m. I decided to turn the machine off (pull the plug) for one minute to see if this would change anything. We have a new TiVO on order and due to arrive on Monday, so if I hosed the machine, what the heck?.

    The result? Total joy. Everything is now as it should be. Time is now correct and all programs on the To Do list have "sprung forward" one hour.

  4. janry

    janry New Member

    Jan 2, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    KInd of weird thing happened. I've been waiting to get the patch. I just walked in and saw the TiVo was recording after 3:00 AM something that was suppose to end at 1:00 AM. And, the TiVo had restarted at 3:00 AM on the dot so that there were 2 listings for what it was recording in the Now Playing List: one listing from 11:00 PM - 3:00 AM and one listing from 3:00 AM - the current time. So why was the recording so long and why did TiVo restart at 3:00 AM? Is it a coincidence that the patch came in during this time?
  5. bicker

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    It is interesting how fixated some folks are about wording, and yet research shows that often customers respond best to wording that they seem to complain the most about, i.e., that customers' purchasing behaviors belie the content of what they whine about. In another forum, this morning, we're talking about the effects of a restaurant greeter providing information about how long of a wait it will be for a table. In that case, evidently the more positive the greeter is about the impending dining experience, the better, yet online people love to complain about how "false" and how "ridiculous" it sounds for the greeter to try to make a guest feel enthusiastic about a wait for a table. Yet, there it is; what we do is radically different what what we say we'll do.
  6. RARamaker

    RARamaker New Member

    Dec 1, 2000
    Grandville, MI
    I have no idea what your point is. My point was that TiVo very likely knows the real fix to the problem, but is unwilling to provide it due to the cost. I just think they should admit it.
  7. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    yah that big lie of sending anyone that asks a fix for DST on the S1 is just such a worse way to go.
  8. osterber

    osterber Active Member

    Feb 13, 2001
    Watertown, MA
    Just to add my comments -- great job all around everyone. This is good work. Round of drinks on me!

  9. bicker

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    How much will saying things the way you want them to say thing improve their bottom line? Understand that the way you want them to say things is your personal preference, and there isn't even any indication whatsoever that even you will respond better to them wording things the way you suggest. You're asserting your way is better -- I'm saying you haven't proved that, and you're probably wrong.
  10. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2002
    I've worked at a company where they blamed the engineers when it was really a management decision. Basically, managment didn't give enough money to investigate the problem, then when the money ran out, engineering got blamed for not finding a fix. It was rather embarrasing for the company and hurt morale.

    Here, Tivo has admitted that it was totally incompetent. It couldn't make a basic fix in its software for one of its formerly premier products. It couldn't even conceive of the work-around that they are distributing now. Did Tivo lose the source code? Is the code "spaghetti code" (i.e. so poorly written and difficult to follow that it is impossible for a new programmer to modify it)? Did they try really hard to fix it? And why aren't there any programmers or systems engineers from the S1 development team left in the company?

    It's nice that they (most likely) didn't lie, and a fix (incomplete, but good enough) is indeed coming. But why do I still feel a little unsettled?
  11. timckelley

    timckelley TCFer

    Oct 15, 2002
    Austin, TX
    Because if it weren't for the TCF hackers, the series 1 would not be supported?

  12. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    Jan 6, 2007
    Basically it really sounds like, for whatever reason, TiVo is very adverse to sending out a full software update for S1 units. There are many theories why that may be the case, but only TiVo people will know which ones are relevant. From the outside, we just know to really start worrying if the only fix for a problem would also require a full software download, because that appears to be sticky point with TiVo.

    It sounds like all their investigation involved ways to resolve the DST problem which specifically did not require a full software download.

    How do we know this? Because many people on this thread have reasonable amounts of software development background and realize that changing the effective dates of an *existing mechanism* is a much simpler change than implementing a new mechanism. If the dates are hard coded into the code it is a relatively simple matter to update those hard coded dates. The hardest part would probably be recompling the code and setting it up for distribution.

    It would be slightly more complex to "fix" it for real and externalize the DST calculations completely, but that wouldn't be necessary for a quick fix that would satisfy the vast majority of customers.

    Anyway, it looks like they had some amount of tunnel vision regarding DST and didn't realize a TZ offset could be used to simulate a DST change (with some minor cosmetic issues)

    I'm glad they did the right thing once this was pointed out to them.
  13. cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Well-Known Member

    Sep 13, 2005
    Once it was pointed out to them, they didn't have much of a choice.
  14. SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

    Dec 26, 2000
    I'm glad TiVo did choose to implement jberman's (thanks!) fix. But in the proof that people can be very petty and anything can be complained about... I was excited to see my S1 say "Pending Restart" :(
  15. SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

    Dec 26, 2000
    I intend to keep mine alive until then and I DEMAND support! ;)
  16. Btrman

    Btrman New Member

    Apr 14, 2003
    NYC suburbs
    I received the update, but lost a whole bunch of channels. I have DirecTV but the stand alone Tivo wouldnt show any HBO channels or aobve and some other channels like DIY (230). So then I tried GUIDED setup, which got stuck at 64% for a long time, so I pulled plug, turned back on and started again. Cant wait to see how long it takes, or if it completes
  17. Opusnbill7

    Opusnbill7 S1 Lifetime User

    Sep 12, 2000
    Lincoln, NE USA
    So....I noticed that all of the shows for 4/1 and after (i.e. a week from this coming sunday) are showing an hour LATE now (when the original DST would have happened). Will Tivo be sending out another "fix" at some point to adjust this, or what will happen? Just wondering...
  18. BTUx9

    BTUx9 back?

    Nov 13, 2003
    Rockport, MA
    looks like tivo opted for the 4 changes per year... I THINK it could've been done with 2, but they probably have their reasons.
  19. Carriere

    Carriere New Member

    Mar 17, 2007
    For what it's worth, I would like to thank Jberman for figuring the fix out, the Tivo Community for shining the bright light, and TiVoJerry and TiVoPony and the rest at TiVo for implementing this fix.

    All I'd like for my TiVo for Christmas, now, is the ability to add Canadian Postal Codes to my HDR112 so that I can use my subscription to get Canadian program listings.

    Merry Christmas.
  20. jberman

    jberman Mostly Harmless

    Oct 1, 2002
    Carriere -

    Have you checked out this site? http://tivoza.nanfo.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ_/_Series_1_LocationID

    Looks like it might have a solution to your problem.

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