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NCTA CableCARD Deployment Update

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by sbiller, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Birmingham, AL
    One would think that everyone involved would be happy with TiVo households reducing the number of CableCards. Most cable companies rent them for such a low price that they're probably not making a profit, and having one vs. 3 or 4 in a house means it's easier to support both from TiVo's perspective and the cable company's perspective. Just hope that TiVo pushes back when CableCos use it as an excuse to drop support.
     
  2. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    There in lies the problem. Cable cos are using the low numbers as a way to show that the technology is dying and as an excuse for the FFC to allow them to go back to proprietary security schemes.
     
  3. shrike4242

    shrike4242 Member

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    Which then screws anyone who's still using this "dying technology", of course. They still can't lock out customers from bringing their own solution, unless they're planning to get lawsuits filed over the country for monopoly tactics.

    I'd probably just cut the cord and tell them to go F themselves if they tried this mess without giving us an "out" of some kind.
     
  4. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    The largest cableCo, Comcast, generally rents them at a ripoff price for second and later cards (full outlet fee of $10 or so minus $2.50 credit, or around $7.50 net a month). Of course the first card is included with service and you get a $2.50 credit for that, so if you only have a couple of cards it's $5 a month net.
     
  5. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    How many people that order cablecards and get them activated are actually telling the provider that they're being used in a cablecard tuner for a PC? I'd be willing to bet that many of them are just telling tech support that they're being used in a Tivo to avoid any confusion about setting them up. I've seen numerous posts in various forums where people are being told to do just that. The provider doesn't really know how the cablecard is being used since they only need the Cablecard ID, Host ID, and Data number to activate the card. There's really nothing that identifies what kind of device it's inserted in. Tivo certainly has the largest market share, but I'd bet that the numbers may be a bit skewed in their favor.
     
  6. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    I understand what you are saying, but these numbers are not based off of what customers tell the cable company. And btw, I believe they could tell what device cablecards are being used in based on the host id. Since TiVo knows exactly how many TiVos are deployed with cablecards in them, they are really the only ones who could provide a clear answer. Ceton and Silicon Dust probably have no way of tracking cablecard use.
     
  7. eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    Another issue with regards to cable cards and the statistics of who is using them, what about the cable cards that the the companies which use the cards for their own equipment?

    For example I have a CC tuner box from my cable provider (Mediacom) which has what appears a standard Motorola multistream card in it and the Mediacom branded Tivos that they are beginning to deploy all have cable cards in them. These statistics are only for the consumer use of the cards. I would like to see the real numbers for example of how many cards the companies bought and used in their own equipment versus the cards given out for third party hardware, be it Tivos, PC hardware or other consumer owned tuning hardware.

    Unfortunately it appears that there are many big players that want to get rid of cable cards and these statistics are being used as another argument for such, not to mention last years court ruling against cable card. Eventually I suspect this will result in least choices for the consumer.
     
  8. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    I'm going from 3 CC's down to 1 due to the Roamio + minis. I would actually suspect that TiVo is adding subs even while CCs are dropping.
     
  9. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    It is very unlikely TiVo will stop selling the Roamio for many years, replacement hardware (for the Roamio) may or may not come out for the retail market, but as of now the MSO market still takes cable cards inside the TiVo as it does for any MSO cable box. If cable cards were made optional by the FCC I am sure they would have to be supported for at least the next 10 years from the time they were made optional. As I see it the most that may happen in the next few years is consumers may not be able to rent any more cable cards directly from the cable co., I don't think this will happen any time soon or at all, but I don't believe that there will be any announcement that after X years all cable card TiVos and all MSO cable card boxes will not work and must be replaced with a new MSO box that does not use cable cards. Some people are still using the Series 1 TiVo, that what, 15 years old technology!!, As of April Windows XP will no longer be supported BUT your working XP will not be turned off, just no more updates. Most people on this Forum want the newest technology, but most people use what they have as long as it does what they want and don't spend the money to upgrade unless forced to (like moving to HDTV from SDTV)
     
  10. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    AFAIK, those cablecards are not included in these stats since they are married to the cablebox.
     
  11. eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    I'm not so sure all of them are married, had issues with a cable box last spring and my CC sent a guy out, after finding the problem he swapped out the card out of the back on the box which was a standard Motorola cable card which fixed it. They are only married in the sense that a new one has to be paired just like our Tivos do.

    Now this box I have from them is rather unique, I looked it up the net and found that by adding a USB hard drive, it becomes a dvr. I keep thinking about adding a drive to see what happens but i keep forgetting since it not high on my list of things to do.

    Yes the stats provided only show the decrease in consumer supplied cards but the point is that there the cable company boxes take advantage of them, which of course the companies don't a big deal made of such. Still would be curious how many cards X company bought and the percentages used internally and not distributed to consumers.
     
  12. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    I don't know of many cable companies that will allow switching out a cablecard in their own box. They are not allowed to do that at TWC and Comcast. Perhaps a local tech did it for you but he probably wasn't suppose to. And on most of these cable boxes, the cards are pre-paired. The pairing process is not the same.
     
  13. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Same ole same ole - we don't want AllVid because we don't want to be dumb pipes providing IP streams to any and all comers with open standards. We want to control the user experience from end to end with our own apps and boxes so we can monetize every bit of it.

    TV Everywhere is their standard answer to AllVid, but it's just another means to collude as an industry to force people to keep subscribing to their local cableCo instead of providing a true internet-based TV system to allow people to subscribe to whatever they want. They want nothing to do with an open IP access standard, they want to provide their own apps on these platforms and claim that's good enough, Tivo et al be damned.

    I also really wish the DoJ's investigation into Time Warner's 'exclusive' contracts with content providers had borne fruit, it would have forced an open market with compulsory licensing of content that we don't have today. There's a reason why there are no internet TV providers today to compete with cable and sat - exclusive tying and bundling that locks everyone else out. And if they were ever forced to open it up, the cableCos will cap HSI to get the money on the other end (this is happening again on Comcast).

    The problem is much broader than AllVid, in other words - it's a complete failure by the FCC and Congress to ensure an open market for TV and HSI.
     
  14. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Extremely well said... I think it would be extremely beneficial if you would post those thoughts to the record on 97-80... I will do the same. Its the only mechanism we have to at least make it known that we don't agree with the NCTA's assertion. I'm contemplating whether or not there are some other channels the consumer can use to make it clear that the NCTA is wrong.
     
  15. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    I would if I had faith that the revolving door FCC and the paid-for Congress would care, but I don't. Sorry, the ship has sailed and the corporatocracy rules. The only solution at this point is anti-trust lawsuits and enforcement.
     
  16. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Fair enough... you are probably right but the effort to raise the flag at least means the minority that believes in consumer choice wasn't silent during this battle.
     
  17. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Like Dan203, I used to have more cablecards than I do now (twice as many).

    I had 6 of them in six 2-tuner TiVo boxes.

    Now I have 3 of them in three 4-tuner Roamios. One of these isn't used for anything except as an extra to swap-in, should one fail, or otherwise not be able to perform its duties (which has happened once already).

    I did not have the luxury of just keeping the extra cablecards (hoarding them, just in case....), because Cox (in my market) auto-nukes any card that has been inactive (has not received and successfully processed authorization) for more than 3 months. Once that happens, they must be replaced (although I'm sure the replacements might have been nuked, then re-programmed to work again). I can not force them to just un-nuke an existing card I had laying around, unused (although once on my account, I still pay ALL associated fees, per card, until returned).

    So, looking at my house as a single household in a study of one household, my cablecard use (active cards) is halved. I worried about the bigger picture, and how the other households moving to more tuners per device, requiring less cablecards, and the resulting "numbers" or "statistics" would be manipulated by those who want them gone. Cox (and other MSOs) are also moving to 6-tuner devices, making the numbers even more dire, if not used in the CORRECT context(s).

    Cox has been reclaiming their own 2-tuner non-integrated boxes (with cablecards), then scrapping them, and using those cards for retail "bring your own box" customers. If you ask for their standard 2-tuner STB or DVR now, you get an older model, with integrated security (no cablecard).

    I pushed them on this practice, and they said the integration ban and FCC mandates did not say they had to scrap, or not re-issue, EXISTING equipment, only that they couldn't make new equipment without non-integrated cablecards inside. They say they are free to keep using the old ones, and to refurbish them for re-issue. It's a great way for them to not have to purchase any more "new" cablecards, while decreasing the numbers/stats for currently deployed and active cablecards.

    It's all very dismal and distressing. If the numbers were used in the true and proper context(s), it would show cablecard as being a success (despite all the headaches and issues with using them). It's also a success story in energy efficiency. Using less of full-featured DVRs with a cablecard in each and every one means energy savings. Less cards and more tuners (and more extender devices) equals less energy use, period. I'd bet money on that none of the "pros" get presented, only the "cons" (which there are less of, when things are presented in proper contexts)...
     
  18. humbb

    humbb Member

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    From Powell's letter: "For example, Comcast and TiVo implemented a solution known as "Cardio" to deliver VOD services to retail TiVo CableCARD devices ..."

    So what my heart doctor really meant when he said "you really need to get more cardio into your daily routine" is that I need to sit on the couch watching more Comcast VOD on my TiVo?
     
  19. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    Exactly, and don't forget to also do those 12 oz. curls, especially during sporting events!
     

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