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mp4 transcoding appears to be eliminated

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by larry99, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. Feb 18, 2009 #1 of 297
    larry99

    larry99 New Member

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    Starting this week I have seen another jump in speed for mp4 transfers since Desktop version 2.7 came out. Transfer time has been reduced from about 50 minutes to about 5 minutes! File size of the transferred file is the same as the original mp4. And [bit rate] *transfer rate to DVR* has about doubled to 2 mbs. Is this part of the Desktop 2.7 change that is just now being implemented? Has TIVO finally elminated mp4 transcoding?
     
  2. Feb 18, 2009 #2 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    That would be great news if so. If you transfer from Tivo back to PC again what do you get (and what size is it)?
     
  3. Feb 18, 2009 #3 of 297
    larry99

    larry99 New Member

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    I can't transfer back because of the TIVO copyright restriction. Lets me transfer from PC to DVR but not back from DVR to PC.
     
  4. Feb 18, 2009 #4 of 297
    NA9D

    NA9D New Member

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    That's odd. Why would something you transferred in be flagged as copyrighted?
     
  5. Feb 18, 2009 #5 of 297
    gonzotek

    gonzotek tivo_xml developer

    2,401
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    Outside...
    What's the software version on the TiVo?
    Messages & Settings > Account & System Information > System Information

    Latest Software versions by model:
    http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...tyhelp/TiVo_software_version_information.html


    There's been at least one report in the forums of a 11.0b "Spring 2009" release. I wonder if the new software is a pre-req for mp4-native transfers?
     
  6. Feb 18, 2009 #6 of 297
    larry99

    larry99 New Member

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    Version on my S3 DVR; 11.0-01-2-652. TIVO website shows 11.0......On copyright, everything has some copyright even if its free to download. Why TIVO lets copyrighted material transfer one way and not the other, I have no idea. The particular program I used this time was Democracy Now for Feb 18 th. But I have encountered this problem before.
     
  7. Feb 18, 2009 #7 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    larry99, do you have a link to an mp4 file which exhibits this behavior by any chance?
    If not, can you post detailed specs of an mp4 file which is doing this? Ideally if you can use something like mediainfo to collect all specs on the file that would be great. Thanks!
     
  8. Feb 18, 2009 #8 of 297
    berkshires

    berkshires New Member

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    That isn't physically possible

    Look deeper, you may have a problem you don't realize yet.
     
  9. Feb 18, 2009 #9 of 297
    larry99

    larry99 New Member

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    Try mp4 download of this link via bittorrent or miro;
    http://www.democracynow.org/2009/2/18/stream

    Berkshires: Which isn't possible, the 2 mbs upload speed or the file being the same size? The mp4 file size is 441 mb, the DVR shows 0.44 Gb after transfer. I watched the download via Sygate on my PC and it averaged about 2 mbs. That's about twice what I have experienced before over my wireless g network with TIVO. I didn't time the upload exactly, but it was definetly under 15 minutes for a 1 hour video. I did it for two mp4s including the link above. I have watched about half of that one. Will watch the rest tommorow and post if there are any problems.

    Mediainfo: MPEG-4 441 MiB 59mn 5s, video stream AVC, audio stream AAC. English, 900 Kbps, 640*480(4/3) at 29.970 fps, AVC
     
  10. Feb 18, 2009 #10 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    I'm not home so can't easily try transfer to Tivo yet, but here's detailed specs on the file:
    (In summary it's h.264 video with 2 channel AAC audio in mp4 container)
    Code:
    General
    
    Complete name                    : C:\home\Demnow-DemocracyNowWednesdayFebruary182009386.mp4
    
    Format                           : MPEG-4
    
    Format profile                   : Base Media / Version 2
    
    Codec ID                         : mp42
    
    File size                        : 95.3 MiB
    
    Duration                         : 59mn 5s
    
    Overall bit rate                 : 225 Kbps
    
    Encoded date                     : UTC 2009-02-17 13:06:59
    
    Tagged date                      : UTC 2009-02-17 13:06:59
    
    
    
    Video
    
    ID                               : 201
    
    Format                           : AVC
    
    Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
    
    Format profile                   : Baseline@L1.3
    
    Format settings, CABAC           : No
    
    Format settings, ReFrames        : 6 frames
    
    Codec ID                         : avc1
    
    Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
    
    Duration                         : 59mn 4s
    
    Bit rate mode                    : Variable
    
    Bit rate                         : 120 Kbps
    
    Maximum bit rate                 : 1 045 Kbps
    
    Width                            : 320 pixels
    
    Height                           : 240 pixels
    
    Display aspect ratio             : 4/3
    
    Frame rate mode                  : Constant
    
    Frame rate                       : 14.985 fps
    
    Original frame rate              : 25.000 fps
    
    Resolution                       : 24 bits
    
    Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
    
    Scan type                        : Progressive
    
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.104
    
    Stream size                      : 50.7 MiB (53%)
    
    Writing library                  : x264 core 59
    
    Encoding settings                : cabac=0 / ref=6 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x111 / me=umh / subme=6 / brdo=0 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=12 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=0 / keyint=90 / keyint_min=15 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=crf / crf=26.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=1.00 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=2:1.00
    
    Encoded date                     : UTC 2009-02-17 13:06:59
    
    Tagged date                      : UTC 2009-02-17 13:07:01
    
    
    
    Audio
    
    ID                               : 101
    
    Format                           : AAC
    
    Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
    
    Format version                   : Version 4
    
    Format profile                   : LC
    
    Format settings, SBR             : No
    
    Codec ID                         : 40
    
    Duration                         : 59mn 5s
    
    Bit rate mode                    : Variable
    
    Bit rate                         : 104 Kbps
    
    Maximum bit rate                 : 158 Kbps
    
    Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
    
    Channel positions                : L R
    
    Sampling rate                    : 32.0 KHz
    
    Resolution                       : 16 bits
    
    Stream size                      : 43.8 MiB (46%)
    
    Encoded date                     : UTC 2009-02-17 13:07:00
    
    Tagged date                      : UTC 2009-02-17 13:07:01
    
     
  11. Feb 18, 2009 #11 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    It just occurred to me that one may need to have Tivo Desktop Plus to transfer mp4 files from PC->Tivo using Tivo Desktop, so I may not be able to try this out (certainly not willing to spend the money on Plus). So if someone else out there with Plus can try this out and get the same results as larry99 that would be greatly appreciated.
    (If mp4 is indeed being transferred and stored natively on Tivo then that capability should be possible to enable in pyTivo).
     
  12. Feb 18, 2009 #12 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    larry99, I should be able to generate a short test clip with similar encoding profile that is DRM free that should be possible to transfer back from Tivo to PC. Will post a URL for it after I get a chance to generate one and if you could try it out that would be great.
    Come to think of it, the issue may not be DRM at all but rather Tivo doesn't have a TTG mechanism for transferring mp4 files from Tivo->PC
     
  13. Feb 18, 2009 #13 of 297
    larry99

    larry99 New Member

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    Moyekj: Your parameters are different from mine. There are two mp4 versions on the link. I am using the Bittorrent. Its 640*480 and 900 Kbs. I will do more testing tommorow. Is there a way to attach a jpg? I could then show you exactly what I have.
     
  14. Feb 18, 2009 #14 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Just for grins can you try the following encoding I just generated? It's a short 1 minute or so clip. (I don't think the exact bit rate etc. is as important as the video and audio types. As long as that matches the torrent version then should be sufficient for our testing purposes).
    http://tivostream.googlecode.com/files/test.mp4
     
  15. Feb 18, 2009 #15 of 297
    Allanon

    Allanon Member

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    Moyekj, I tested your file using Tivo Desktop Plus 2.7 and here are the results:

    File size on computer is 13.7MB

    Transfer From Computer to Tivo HD:
    File size on Tivo reads 0.050GB
    File Size in Tivo Desktop Plus reads 60MB

    Transfer From Tivo To Computer:
    File Size on Computer is 52MB

    I will test the video larry99 linked to and report back.
     
  16. Feb 18, 2009 #16 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Allanon. Going by the size looks like the test clip is being transcoded to mpeg2. If you decrypt the .TiVo file transferred back and look at the specs you can determine for sure if that's the case.
     
  17. Feb 18, 2009 #17 of 297
    fyodor

    fyodor Member

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    I'd love to give this a try. How do you check file sizes on the Tivo?

    F


     
  18. Feb 18, 2009 #18 of 297
    berkshires

    berkshires New Member

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    I see - contextually your 2mbs refered to the bit rate of the video, not the transfer speed, but you meant the transfer speed.

    In that case, '50min to 5min' and 'double transfer speed' don't make sense. Either way, all three statements can't be simultaneously correct.
     
  19. Feb 18, 2009 #19 of 297
    fyodor

    fyodor Member

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    Why? As I understand him, he is transferring the MP4 file directly instead of transcoding it to a larger MPEG-2 file and transferring that to his Tivo. So, if he's getting twice the transfer rate with substantially smaller file, he could be seeing 1/10 the transfer time.



     
  20. Feb 18, 2009 #20 of 297
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    From Now Playing List "right" into a show then click "info" to see extended info about the show. The file size is listed towards the bottom of the screen (for some shows you have to page down to see it).
     

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